Would you say that manually lofting these MRAAMs would hurt their performance btw?
I mean，these missiles will automatically loft even when launched within 15 kilometers. This not only extends the flight distance of the missile,but also causes the missile to pull out excess overload and consume more energy.
At any reasonable range they already loft way too high, to the point where some of them are coming down almost completely vertically at 40km. Tossing them even higher will only make it worse.
It might be a bug with the inertial guidance, cause I’m not sure how it thinks that the initial trajectory of the plane is that the plane is traveling in reverse while facing head-on to you.
I do wonder if point nose down a bit relative to the target could help mitigate the loft bugs.
It absolutely is a bug, that’s not intentional behavior but even if fixed I doubt manually lofting the missiles will make any significant difference given how quickly they maneuver to their loft trajectory,
With the way lofting is now on the dev server, no it doesn’t help. The loft code is way too aggressive and regardless of attitude at launch the missile will still go into its 20-25 degree climb
Does these 2 models have any significant differences?
One says B, the other says A.
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So you mean there is no actual differences between these 2, right?
Touching back on this, it appears this chart is very misleading. Testing seems to confirm what I had been saying about the R-27ER in the conditions mentioned. Even in the charts posted, the R-27ER is superior to the AIM-120 even when it isn’t lofted. By the way, the MiG-29SMT can notch at nearly 90 degrees while guiding the R-27ER whereas whatever is using AIM-120 can’t… so to pretend they remain head-on as my scenario does is to unfavorably benefit the AMRAAM launcher.
Correct. There is only one missile file, the AIM-120B is a texture only iirc.
The AMRAAM launch aircraft could probably break lock, and crank / turn cold and then require for terminal homing (or just let it continue on it’s way to go active), and of those equipt with an IRST aren’t going to struggle with losing the target due to notching & chaff, few will probably also remember to deploy Flares as well once they are given dedicated deployment key binds.
it seems that the R-27 would have the advantage at closer ranges where the TTK is too short to allow for significant defensive maneuvers(TTK <= ~9.5 sec), but at longer ranges the AMRAAM launcher will have the time to wait out the launch especially once TTG metrics are being presented.
Excellent graph btw
another test
9000m(30k ft) M1.2 vs 9000m M1.2 head on launch
test 20km 30km 40km 50km 60km 70km
mica and 27er cant reach 70km because of their battery time
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As smart as that sounds, the R-27ER user can always just avoid entering the MAR as well. War Thunder players aren’t this smart. You’ll see the F-16 and MiG-29 users going head-on and launching at long range like I said, the R-27ER will casually smoke the F-16 and the MiG-29 will turn around. It’s just a fact of life for War Thunder players.
Mind tossing the AIM-54A and C into the test to see how they compare? Itd be particularly interesting to me since the AIM-54’s are pretty well known for having terrible loft mechanics bordering on not lofting at all, so comparing them to the more aggrssive loft profiles of the new missiles would be interesting in my opinion.
The point is to theorycraft counter tactics, and how to play around them.
The other thing I guess you could do is wait for them to try and notch the radar and then crank in the direction opposite their nose to try and get the radar to reach the gimbal limits, few would probably realize in time that they need to turn in ( to support the lock), or it would stop them from notching properly, forcing them out of the Notch to keep track, or otherwise to rely on later recovering the track in the terminal phase.
But yeah in close the TTK delta isn’t going to allow the time to even begin to turn so velocity really will be king, the best AMRAAM slingers can really hope for is to trade, at best. and that doesn’t even account for a R-77 / R-27Ex mix of missiles, and there really isn’t a recourse until maybe the -C5 and later, or the AIM-152 / -260 turn up.
The R-27 curve does not look normal
Why? Its a much draggier missile than the rest and it doesnt loft. Its pretty obvious its speed should fall off much quicker than the rest. Even then, the impact speed crossover point is only at 49km with the AMRAAM and even further for the rest. If anything it might be overperforming in speed retention.
I don’t think he said anything about the placement, just the curve.
Several things can be inferred from this interestingly enough.
R-77 is better than R-27ER in terms of hitting US bombers/AWACs/tankers that are protected by fighters because of its better absolute max range where the R-27ER was battery limited.
Interestingly, even if the R-27EA was to be made into production, who knows what it would have looked like with an active radar + increased battery time. I’d take a guess that it would have weighed more with a bigger battery and an ARH seeker, and thus a bit less range/acceleration? Although a loft for R-27EA would have negated those things.
The curve for R-27ER in speed drop off seems accurate due to only lack of loft, whereas lofts are supposed to increase the average velocity of speed over flight time. Give the R-27ER missile file a loft code, and the speed drop-off curve will look similar to the MRAAMs.
MICA has a lower battery time and thus lower maximum range than the rest of the MRAAMs, but it doesn’t need to as anything beyond 50km wouldn’t hit even a slightly evading fighter for any of the MRAAMs. France is located on the western coast of Europe, so there’s no threat of Russian or Chinese bombers/awacs like there is for UK/US/Germany/Sweden. It is optimized to be used against fighters, hence the high acceleration and TVC.
AIM-120 does the best so far in terms of having absolute max range for bombers/awacs while also being good for fighters. But it’s also the least effected by bugs out of all the missiles here, except for maybe R-27ER.
