The AH-1Z's Current BR Is Becoming Increasingly Difficult to Justify

Machinery of War Discussion Helicopter
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1

I genuinely don’t understand why the AH-1Z is still sitting at 12.0 GRB , especially considering the capabilities of other helicopters at the same or lower BRs and how much the SPAA environment has changed.

The Viper is still entirely dependent on AGM-114K Hellfires, whose long flight times and requirement for continuous laser designation make them increasingly impractical against modern SPAA such as the IRIS-T SLM, NASAMS, and Pantsir-SM-SV. Having to remain exposed until impact is a massive disadvantage when these systems can engage you well before your missile reaches its target.

Compare this to the Ka-52 at the exact same 12.0 BR . It gets Vikhrs, radar, IRCM, and MAW. Vikhrs are substantially faster than Hellfires, have proximity fuses, and can engage both ground and aerial targets. Despite also requiring continuous guidance, their shorter flight times make them considerably more practical against SPAA.

What’s even more ridiculous is the difference in defensive capabilities. The AH-1Z doesn’t just lack LDIRCM, it has absolutely no IRCM or DIRCM whatsoever. While the Ka-52 has at least some protection against conventional IR-guided missiles, the Viper is entirely dependent on flares and maneuvering.

This becomes especially problematic against modern IIR-guided SPAA and helicopters carrying advanced IR missiles, where conventional countermeasures are significantly less effective.

Then there’s the Mi-35P at 11.7 , which gets Vikhrs, Atakas, and MAW. Despite being considerably less maneuverable, it has more practical anti-tank weapons at a lower BR.

I also don’t think the AIM-9Ms justify the AH-1Z’s BR . The Z-9W already gets TY-90s at 10.3 , the Z-9WA at 11.0, and the Z-19 variants at 11.7. These are extremely effective air-to-air missiles, particularly against helicopters.

While the AIM-9M has advantages against fixed-wing aircraft, I don’t see why its presence warrants 12.0 when helicopters substantially lower already have such capable air-to-air weapons. Especially in Ground RB, where the Viper’s primary ground-attack capabilities are already lacking.

Missing equipment and modernization

What’s particularly frustrating is that several of these shortcomings could be addressed through equipment the AH-1Z is currently missing.

I’ve already submitted three bug reports concerning these capabilities:

AGM-179 JAGM:

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/vfyhjhyAATYU

DAIRCM:

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/trOL8uWGD80K

AIM-9X:

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/4Pk62eBaiYtQ

The AH-1Z achieved IOC with the AGM-179A JAGM in March 2022 , yet it’s still limited to Hellfires in-game. Its DAIRCM integration is similarly documented, having undergone testing and received approval for fielding. The AIM-9X has also been identified as part of the aircraft’s modernization plans.

These capabilities would directly address the Viper’s shortcomings in both offensive effectiveness and survivability, particularly as more advanced missiles and defensive systems continue to be introduced.

And even if Gaijin doesn’t want to give the AH-1Z fire-and-forget missiles, why not at least give it the JAGM-MR (SAL), which is already modeled in-game?

Its boost-sustain propulsion provides improved sustained missile performance, potentially reducing the amount of time the Viper needs to remain exposed while guiding its missiles. It would still require continuous laser designation, but would at least offer a meaningful improvement over the Hellfire and give the AH-1Z a more competitive option against Vikhr-equipped helicopters.

I think the AH-1Z should either be moved down to 11.7 in its current configuration or receive its missing modernization capabilities and be balanced accordingly. I simply don’t see how its AIM-9Ms and maneuverability justify 12.0 when other helicopters have better ground-attack weapons and defensive equipment at the same or lower BRs.

Poll: What should Gaijin do about the AH-1Z’s current state?

  • Add its missing modernization capabilities and increase its BR accordingly
  • Lower it to 11.7 with its current equipment
  • Keep it at 12.0 without changes
  • Keep it at 12.0 with JAGM-MR (SAL)
0 voters
2 Likes
2

Thank you everyone for your interaction with the post.

3

Another thing they should do is just lower the BR of this one, and add an “AH-1Z (Late)” with said modernizations

4

I don’t think so. The AH-1W fills the gap if these changes get implemented.

5

how?

the early AH-1Z would still be a higher BR than AH-1W
and theres already pretty much no point in playing AH-1W because MH-60DAP is at the same BR while being much better in pretty much every way

6

Honestly there already isn’t much point in using the AH-1Z when the AH-64D exist at a lower BR.

7

I disagree I much prefer the AH-1Z over 64D

and its not like theres much point playing 11.7 with how bad its matchmaker is

when compared to the 64D the AH-1Z has better optics, a better gun for self defense, and 2 9Ms which while bad are still better than the no air to air missiles you get with the 64D unless you sacrifice the MAWS, I also prefer the flight model of the AH-1Z to the AH-64s

8

Fair enough, I just hardly think the AH-1Z should exist in its current state. Imo the best would be adding an AH-1Z (Late) as well as giving the current AH-1Z its JAGM-MR (SAL) missiles

9

yeah that would be my preferred option too

10

I’ve never experienced such pain of having to not only face Pantsir SM-SVs and the IRIS-T but also having to watch out for FNF heli missiles that, by the time your MAWS catches them, you have too little time to evade. Also the RWR on the AH-1Z is atrocious and categorizes literally everything as “?.” Like, at 12.0, I want to know whether I’m getting painted by a Pantsir SM-SV or a Gepard…

11

Not to mention that it has NO IRCM at all meaning any and all IR missiles are threats

12

imho
2x AH-1Zs
One with SALs at 12.0
And another with 179s and 9Xs at 12.7

13

Could easily be the best US helicopter

14

If it gets LDIRCM, which it likely won’t, or it goes straight to 13.0. Best if it doesn’t get it because 64E exists, and id like to have a 12.7 Heli option for the US.

15

Why would it not? There is more documentation on LDIRCM being tested than the AIM-9X

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Its actually labeled as a modernization priority currently
image

17

as much as I would like a 12.7 heli for the US

AH-1Z would be better than AH-64E at 13.0

and the better optics would let you use the increased range of JAGM over hellfires

also I feel like if it got SAL JAGMs only and LDIRCM it could stay at 12.7, and that would probably be the best implementation for it and to fill out US heli tree

18

I’m just speaking in a hypothetical pick and choose balance-based way. If both the 64E and Viper have LDIRCM, one of them is redundant.

19

I mean same could be said about the MI-28NM and the KA-52 before LDIRCM among others

Nothing wrong with variety

20

Yea
And now they’re different, giving you an option for both 12.0-12.7 and 13.0. Redundancy is pointless and only harms your options, unless we add 3 different Vipers.
Honestly here’s where modification based BRs would work very well.