This should have the same exact BR as the F16A, so either move F16A to 12.7 or lower Netz to 12.3, these missiles are marginally better than 9L and neither have IRCCM. Ignoring the french pay2win F16, every other 12.7 either has decent Fox 1 or IRCCM Fox 2, so I wouldn’t recommend having them at 12.7. Literally, a MiG 23 would be more competitive in a 12.7 match than the Netz and I would much rather be in a Phantom.
hell id take the Python3s over Aim9Ms any day
ill just leave this here as a historical record on delusion
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how so? considering the Air frame of the Netz and the BR range that it’s in, the python outperforms the 9M. Do enlighten me tho on the upsides and use cases of the 9M over the Python
Edit: i usually don’t like statshaming but seeing as you’re hostile from the getgo instead of reasoning, you’re in the negative on most top tier jets i doubt there’ll be anything constructive coming out of this
The python 3 is defeated with the tap of a single flare or rocket since it doesn’t have IRCCM, while 9M has IRCCM and therefore is way more resistant to flaring. Your only kills with a python are coming from blind people, while people might see you firing a 9M at them and still die to it if they don’t defend properly. There’s no comparison.
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thanks for proving my point, both have advantages and disadvantages and on an Airframe like the Netz the Pythons better acceleration and pull just outweigh the positives of the 9M, 9M wins in side aspect shots at 2km or more sure but rear or front aspect the Python is vastly superior, due to previously stated advantages. its insanely hard to flare rear aspect and impossible to flare if someone face shoves it at like 1km, meanwhile 9M can be one flared both rear and front aspect while also lacking the acceleration and pull when it really matters. all you really showed me is that u don’t play either missile much or at least dont put any thought behind usage scenario and outcome
I agree, this plane needs a lower BR. Only an idiot would claim it’s in the right place. Many dedicated streamers who participate in tournaments, 4v4 battles, and other battles have already said it’s very poorly ranked. Even if the BR were decompressed, it still doesn’t belong there. The American F-16 is ranked 12.3 with the same missiles, but Netz has more flares. What nonsense? When was that ever a reason for a higher BR? Okay, then the German F-18 should be ranked 13.0; it has more flares than other, more sophisticated variants.
We need decompression to at least 15.0.
absolutely dreadful jets, no one in their right mind would fly those today.
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I can’t believe people still think Aim-9Ms are good.
Either way, I’d just like everyone to be reminded that Netz is at the same BR as the F-16AJ, which is basically identical except for the fact it gets radar missiles.
Radar missiles are way more useful then p3
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f-15a is going to be the same br as the netz…
The Netz is getting moved down to 12.3
You’re right, the netz’s are extremely underpowered in 12.7
I don’t understand your argument.
Sure, in a head-on situation, the P3 might outperform the 9M. But I think the Python 3 only hits enemies who aren’t flaring in a head-on engagement?
Besides, I don’t see why the Python 3 should get a BR boost just based on its performance difference from the 9L (especially since Netz’s BR was already lowered).
If I had to choose between the Python 3 and the 9M, I’d pick the 9M.
below 1km-ish they’re unflareable because the flare doesn’t get enough distance from the jet fast enough, rear aspect they’re incredibly flare resistant aswell.
although it outperforms the 9L by an insane margin in most use cases(imo) i do agree, a marginally better missile doesn’t warrant an entire BR step increase, but i don’t think i ever argued that? especially in the current meta that makes IR slingers a real pain to perform really well in. At 12.7 you get mostly uptiers to 13.7 where almost all contenders have 6-8 ARH missiles vs your grand total of 6 IR missiles with the glorious range cap of 2-4km depending on the situation
yet again, comes down to preference and airframe. On the Baz i prefer the 9M, on any F16 i prefer the P3, and the jump from p3 to 9M in the F16s context is an entire BR jump usually, so not only do you have an arguably worse missile for your platform but also get an increased BR, meaning an even worse matchmaker for your trusted IR slinger.
Honestly, even in that situation, I can’t trust the P3. I understand the idea of hitting the target before it’s disrupted by flares due to acceleration, but frankly, if I’m getting within 1km, I trust the M61 more.
I’m sorry, I may have misunderstood this part of your statement (the quote below). That was my mistake.
Yeah, I agree. Fighting with P3 is way better than letting Netz have 9M.
But I don’t understand this part.
Is it just sarcasm, or is it saying the delay until P3 guidance initiation is as fast as the R-73?
sure if you can get a gun solution, why waste a missile most of the time it’s just easier/more reliable to face shove a missile while avoiding his guns.
the meta shifted quite a bit in the meantime, back then the matchmaker was a lot more forgiving since monsters like the su30mkk and su30mk2 weren’t yet introduced and a bunch more 13.7s were added to several subtrees , ever since then IR slingers expirienced a quite significant fall from grace
that depends, the seeker guidance delay is 0,5 the same as the 9L and therefor not comparable to the R60Ms (0.35) or R73 (0.15) but that difference is negated by the fast acceleration making the missile very maneuverable early on thus making it very much comparable to the R60M and R73 at short ranges (obviously disregarding the TV on the R73)
I completely forgot about that, sorry.
I see.
I think it’s more appropriate to compare it to the PL-5EⅡ.
The R-73 (I know you said disregarding it) is a bit hard to imagine maneuvering without TVC.
PL5E2 is more of a magic equivalent (idk but isn’t it literally a licensed magic2?), it’s not as easy to face shove them, but they’re amazing rear aspect. Personally i think of the P3 as the combination of the best qualities of the R60M and Aim9L - Good rear Aspect performance with the 9L seeker making it somewhat flare resistant while also having amazing acceleration, really good pull throughout all stages of flight and actually quite decent range (obiously less than the 9L due to the booster being stronger but having way shorter burn time but sill more range than the R73 due to not having TV).
The perfect example for how the performance of it varies depending on platform is the JH7A, on the JH7A the PL5E2 is just the more potent missile due to added IRCCM and even better acceleration compared the PL8 (license built P3). With the flying Brick the rat missile just prevails over the dogfighting missile.
Isn’t the licensed version of the Magic series PL-7? At least that’s what I thought.
Also, purely in terms of specs, since the PL-5EⅡ and Python 3 have similar values for things like Fin AoA, guidance initiation delay, and missile air resistance, I figured this one might be closer.
Of course, the booster and sustainer performance, as well as the missile’s diameter and weight, are different.