I got several times teamkilled by greedy retards diving from low earth orbit on the guy in front of me - they compressed and crashed into me - and i was blamed as teamkiller. And i was at least 10 times on this account teamkilled by plain idiots just for fun - i survived a lot of other attacks just by pure luck, preemptive measures or was able to kill the guy as he messed up his first approach. So imho your reasoning shows that different people might have different experiences.
I’m sorry that this has happened to you. I should have added that my experience is based solely on GRB. What’s going on in the ARB … well … this thread exists for a reason. Far be it from me to minimise the things that happen there, on the contrary, they require action.
We have this, they are called Game Masters.
And learnt something again. Thank you.
Ofc - this whole issue could be solved if gaijin would preemptively eliminate the major factors which are leading to teamkills and perma ban malicious team killers.
This reminds me strongly of the traffic situation in my old home country of Germany, Berlin … Chaos because there are no consequences for wrong behaviour.
Imho they refuse to invest money in this issue as some issues look not cheap to solve and team killers are customers too - they lose real money if they perma ban malicious team killers.
I agree with you on this point. But Gaijin may be thinking too short-sightedly. My wallet is currently closed due to many problems that are being ignored or sometimes even made worse.
Sure, I’m just one customer, but if more do it, it adds up in the long term.
Basically, if the TK system is not reformed, it will certainly drive many out of the game again. Yes, the player numbers are high, but you shouldn’t rest on your laurels.
Same as kill stealers - just add 2 columns to the stats: #1 number of assists and #2 total number of assists + kills and communicate that the total number is decisive for tasks/achievements/wagers/orders/events and at least some guys would be way more relaxed.
In the last round I had a Tiger that carelessly drove into the cap on which I had requested an artillery strike shortly before because of an opponent.
He left the battle so quickly that the “apologise for the teamkill” function was useless.
In my opinion, it’s quite unfair that I’m being penalised for his carelessness. I have the TK on the clock plus the rep costs.
It was basically a 1-2 second wait because all the red smoke markers were clearly visible.
What annoys me the most is that he actually provided good support.
Team killing can be frustrating in War Thunder, and it’s essential to find effective ways to prevent it. Here are just some of my suggestions:
Damage Reflection Mechanism:
Implement a system where accidental friendly fire results in your own vehicle taking the damage you would have inflicted. [This instant karma approach discourages team killing while maintaining the need for clear target identification before shooting]
Forgive TK Option:
Allow players who accidentally kill a teammate to be forgiven by the affected player. [This system has been successfully implemented in other games and lets the victim decide whether forgiveness is appropriate]
Moderator Intervention:
Introduce moderators who investigate each team kill. If a player consistently team kills, they could face penalties or temporary bans. [This approach ensures fair judgment and discourages intentional griefing]
Permanent Bans for Repeat Offenders:
Consider permanently banning players with a high number of team kills over a specific period. [For instance, more than 10 team kills per month for two consecutive months or more than 20 in a single month could trigger a permanent ban]
Selective Friendly Fire:
Restrict friendly fire only for players who have a history of team killing. [This way, accidental team kills won’t affect other players, but intentional griefers will still face consequences]
Remember that finding the perfect solution may require a combination of these methods. The goal is to maintain a positive gaming experience while minimizing team killing incidents
Imho your list sounds reasonable, but if i see the 1st 2 points
I see from a holistic approach (so by looking at all game modes) two severe drawbacks:
Damage reflection:
For fellow Ground RB players we have 2 common ways of teamkilling: Arty and reckless pilots dropping stuff like FAB 5.000s on capture points. Even if they announce their actions, friendlies ignore it (either plain stupid, chat deactivated or unable to read foreign languages).
Forgive team kill option:
Sounds great, but i see mainly squadded teams having a real benefit - as they teamkill each other to deny kills for enemies, or because they are just trolling.
The other 3 ideas:
look great.
But imho this would require that gaijin at least acknowledges that modes like Air RB have a team killing problem. From my pov this is not the case.
So in case the would change their mind my response to your ideas:
Moderators:
Based on my observations this looks rather like a mission impossible just due the incredible high numbers of team kills. I mean there is a reason why they have introduced this (imho not working) auto-ban system.
Even if you would limit this to props, it looks way more efficient to increase severe punishments for team kills within the first minutes (take-off phase) and if no enemies are near (circle of 3km)
But i have seen too many replays of fellow jet pilots firing missiles at long range and a friendly flies into them - or missiles went rogue and killed friendlies not even near the initial target.
Perma bans
Fully agree, but imho not a question of total numbers, more like a ratio (TKs vs played matches); otherwise you would punish very active players as unintentional teamkills based on plain stupidity (like running in own arty or flying through friendly bullet stream) still happen.
Selective friendly fire
Great idea, i recommend also ratio instead of fixed numbers.
The idea of having accidental friendly fire result in self-damage is intriguing. It would indeed discourage reckless shooting and promote better target identification.
However, implementing this system would require careful balancing. For example, it should not be overly punitive, especially in situations where players accidentally hit a teammate due to chaotic battles or close-quarters combat.
Additionally, the severity of self-damage would need to be calibrated to avoid unintended consequences.
Forgive TK Option:
Allowing players to forgive accidental team kills is a positive step. It puts the decision in the hands of the affected player, allowing them to assess the situation.
This system has been successful in other games, as it promotes forgiveness and reduces frustration.
However, as you rightly pointed out, squadded teams could potentially exploit this feature. Developers would need to consider safeguards to prevent abuse.
Drawbacks and Considerations:
Balancing: Both systems would require careful balancing to ensure they don’t negatively impact gameplay or encourage griefing.
Community Behavior: The success of these features also depends on the community’s behavior. Players need to use them responsibly.
Game Modes: As you mentioned, considering all game modes is crucial. The impact of these changes should be assessed across different modes (Ground RB, Air RB, Naval, etc.).
In the end, any changes to the team-killing system should aim to strike a balance between promoting fair play, reducing frustration, and preventing abuse.
Having dedicated moderators to investigate team kills is a proactive step. It ensures fair judgment and discourages intentional griefing.
However, as you rightly pointed out, the sheer volume of team kills in some games can overwhelm human moderators. Automation or a combination of automated systems and Manual (Human) oversight might be necessary.
Permanent Bans for Repeat Offenders:
Implementing permanent bans for repeat offenders is a strong deterrent. It sends a clear message that team killing is unacceptable.
Calculating the threshold based on a ratio (team kills vs. played matches) is a fair approach. It accounts for both frequency and overall playtime.
Selective Friendly Fire:
Restricting friendly fire only for players with a history of team killing is a clever solution. It minimizes accidental team kills while still penalizing intentional griefers.
Using a ratio (e.g., team kills per match) for triggering this restriction ensures flexibility and adaptability.
Acknowledging the Problem: You raise an essential point. Acknowledging that certain game modes have a team killing problem is crucial. Developers need to recognize this issue to implement effective solutions.
Thank you for sharing your insights, and I appreciate your feedback
TBH the issue I have expirenced of being Auto-Kicked for Team Killing was in Naval where there would be an enemy and a friendly plane and my AI gunners would get lucky and accidently kill the friendly. This has happened twice and was really annoying. There should be a way to distinguish between AI Gunners mistake and a genuine intent to kill friendly aircraft in Naval. There should also be the apology system in Naval for TKing as you can’t TK your own Ships, but you can Aircraft.
This might look like an advantage - but imho it is not; mainly because the average 0.50 cal user has no problem with trying it; and often there are more than 2 of these “specialists” active in such attempts to kill burning planes without wings.
And 2 or 3 go low and get jumped by enemy fighters - and you play 2 vs 8, as usual when paired with an US team…
But @Loofah is right, the kill allocation is not comprehensible.
In my last match I scored 2 lousy hits on a B-25 (which killed a friendly Spit 30 seconds before) - and the B-25 tried to bomb airfield and got disintegrated by af aaa - and i was rewarded with 90 points for "Severely damaged finished off) and 2 x 25 points for the hit.
According to their own rules this is impossible as i scored no crit or anything like that - and i actually feel sorry for the dead spit as i robbed his kill - the B-25 flew without smoking or any signs of a damage…
This is an old issue.
I remember how back in the day single AP-I to spitfire that turned 2 tiny parts yellow could be counted as crit, then if somebody else shot the plane to pieces but WITHOUT scoring a kill, if pilot bailed out - the 1st guy received the kill, even though he did nothing.
I was on both sides of such events multiple times, of course more often I was the one battering the plane into submission only to be rewarded with an “assist”. Watching replays shows a lot of ugly truth.
But hey, we’re playing a game where nowadays this doesn’t even count as crit:
Damage reflection is always a bad thing because if someone flies in front of you engageing something, you’re going to get totalled through no actual fault of your own.
We’ve got the forgive system, and whilst it needs more work and actual ‘usage’, it’s ‘there’
Permanent bans and deletion of actual problem players who do this stuff, isn’t a bad idea, but someone will be all ‘Oh but they’ll get thier lawyer in’ which is just an excuse to avoid acting on it.
You think that, but it’s not the case with the players. Like, a lot of the issue itself, revolves around bad players, being ignored and excused for so long that they no longer give an actual toss about the game rules, they’ll TK you out of spite.
Case in point, 2 individuals on the forums here, one was upset at the teammate for not saving them in thier tank, so the returned with some bombs to make it clear that they were the asshole…
Another goes to TK the nuke carrier because they wanted the match to play out longer.
These are players who are making out that there are other issues with the game. They do need removal, but I see the chicken coming out when they pull out the old ‘I’m talking to my lawyer’.
It’s clear that there are players who misuse the game mechanics for their own purposes, which can ruin the experience for others. While the idea of self-damage from friendly fire might not deter all such behavior, it could still be a step towards promoting more responsible gameplay.
However, it’s also important to address the issue of players who intentionally disrupt the game.
This is a matter for the game’s moderation team, and I agree that consistent enforcement of the rules is key.
Players who repeatedly break the rules should face appropriate consequences
Absolutely… To even STILL have TKing being a thing this many years down the track, with so many older players, level 100s, all having no issue whatsoever to TK someone, obviously shows the ‘prevention’ that they bring in on a blanket method isn’t the solution.
The thing I REALLY hate is that they took the team damage off the RB tanks in the first place… When they did that people started just straight out MGing people an annoying people.
They make out that you’re being silly being upset that they’re shooting you, but the issue I had with that is that the ricocheting shots off MY tank, were giving away where I was heading. Much the same as the reason I hate peopel MGing into the sky as they’re moving about at the start of the match, they disclose to the enemy where and how many are headed out in a direction bcause of it.
There is definitely a group who think it’s funny to mess with everyone and make out that they’re being silly about it, when they’re genuinely being disruptive and ruining the game for others.
When you have issues and take them to the moderation team, to be told they can’t do anything about it, thenyou find yourself talking to the Community Managers, who then take 6 months to evn respond to you, let alone even actually respond compared to a ‘Thank you for this, I’ll investigate’ well down the track you end up facing a problem that the moderation team aren’t actually moderating anything other than chat.
I’ve had to escalate so many things… From squadrons with the N word in them (Took almost a YEAR to get ANYTHING even removed), to the botters in the past wave taking 6 months to get any progress on, where a botter could make level 100 in 10 days as I’d pointed out to the Moderation team and the CMs and even a dev, to literally just be ignored.
I mean it would be great if the 60-90 seconds right after spawn would be covered - it doesn’t matter in Air RB if it is intentional or not, but if no enemy can’t be technically near you (like right after spawn either on airfield or with airspawn) any team kill is to be seen as intentional.
So these “sorry misclick” guys should either l2p or get a ban…
Another possible solution to what you describe, that could also benefit many other parts of the game, would be to have a timer at that start of each match. No weapons can fire for “X” amount of time from the start. The mechanic is already in game, as used in the old “Duel” events. Say :20 - :30 secs, depending on the mode and vehicle type would prolly work wonders. No more blatant or accidental TK’s at the beginning of Air RB matches, no more annoying players peppering everyone in sight in tank/air spawns. They could even increase the TK penalties after implementing such a timer, as after the timer runs out, anyone still participating in “friendly fire” activities is doing it to be disruptive and annoy other players who are trying to legitimately play the game as intended. While I’m not sure they can ever completely remove TK’ing, at least these measures, which should be pretty easy to implement, would seem to lessen a great deal of the “opportunity” for this type of bad behavior. Just a thought . . .
‘Stopping’ them doing it by this forcing them not to fire, doesn’t address anything and merely makes it not happen at the start.
It’s not fixing the dumbass player who can’t control their trigger, and is obviously needing to sort themselves out before playing with others.
It’s like Ground RB with no tanks able to hurt each other, yet the idiot can come in flying with a bomb to drop on their teammate, or artillery thier teammate. You can’t stop both of those otherwise people would be impervious to damage whilst being in combat, and you’d be able to have everyone dogpile into a heap to scrap, and have a bomber just drop in the middle of everyone and end up with them just killing the enemy.
Thing is if you do the 20-30 seconds, then it goes further out, are you going to keep making more and more timer, or just outright block the damage, compared to actually fixing the player?
It does amaze me when a teammate shoves someone out of cover, and that player getting killed now being in full view. Not sure what the purpose of that is other than the one being that way just too young to play a game that relies on teammates. It does get aggravating, especially when you have a booster in play - moreso when in AB. I’ve been the victim of this more often that I care to mention and have reported the violator. Not sure what happened to them, other than a GM looking into how many times that player’s been reported?
…thinks that he can shoot at friendlies (in this case at me), spent all hi ammo, needs then to land and rearm and we lose subsequently on tickets - just because he did not fight the enemy and prevented me from supporting other team members as i had to evade his attack and to extend to gain separation.
Example of failed team killing attempt leading to defeat:
I flew my first match (replay) in a full stock I-185 (M-71) on Frontline Korsun. I tried to sideclimb and looped back to our airfield as i saw an enemy B-17 flying towards my airfield . The B-17 flew direct into my guns - instant kill.at 3:54.
The B-17 was chased by a friendly T-18B, but he never scored a hit on the B-17, so no damage, nothing. This “friendly” tried the in the next 80 seconds to team kill me. As i always check my surroundings i saw his attack coming just due to watching his flight path (4:10) fired all his ammo on me and broke off at ~ 5:30.
Actually i was unsure what to do.
Following him and kill him when he landed to rearm was one option (just in order to prevent new attacks), the other to extend and hoping that this guy could be useful for my team later in the game the other option.
Additionally there was a risk if he did not land on his airfield - the T-18B is actually faster vs a stock I-185 and completely outturns me. And chasing him at low alt makes no sense due to the insane range of his gunner (>2 km).
And ofc - i made the wrong decision - i did not team kill him, extended too far and my team managed to lose by tickets vs just 2 opponents left.
It is not solely the team kill it self (supported by the lack of fear to team kill as a result of the absence of severe punishments) what is so annoying - team kills have often also indirect impacts - either due to the numbers game (locally on the map and in general) or by preventing decisive actions of the team killed player suited to win a match.
