Tanks Sitting Back Taking Potshots Doesn't Really Help The "TEAM"

Game Discussion Arcade Battle
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You refuse to perform the experiment to confirm the data you have been provided.

You have also been provided with a document presenting the findings of research into how this game provides players with silver lion and research points. Judging by your reply, you had failed to interact with it as well.

I have only prompted you to perform the experiment if you choose to be (rightfully) skeptical of the document provided. Being skeptical is good, hence the experiment.

You are replying to me, making claims, without demonstrating even an ounce of effort to provide due dilligence into your claims.

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I can tell the intelligence level, because I have said a few times in this thread that “I DON’T CARE ABOUT POXY K/D RATIOS”. I couldn’t care less. I don’t give a toss. I’m not interested in stupid K/D ratios. Are you getting the message yet??? I Don’t Care. This game is NOT Call of Duty. This game is NOT any OTHER run around, run and gun shoot 'em up game.

If I didn’t HAVE to play with sit back pot shotters, my Win/Lose ratio would be much, much better, but it’s hard to win when your team just wants to lose.

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How so that only your team is filled with people that sit back ?
If enemies behave in the same way then you should be able to contest caps easily and win games, thus increasing your WR.

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so why are you promoting that playstyle as opposed to realistic tank combat, on one hand i support objective play, and tend to stick around capture zones or their flanks.
But on the other you cannot tell people in a tank game, that they cannot do what tanks are designed for, if your thesis is true then why were modern FCS systems created, or laser rangefinders equipped to tanks, oh right, because they are fundamentally designed to be used at range.

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You care about rewards, yet?

Do you know how research points are awarded in warthunder?

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You get RP for individual actions.
You also get RP for EVERY SECOND YOU SPEND ALIVE.

However, this RP you gain is modified by your Activity%.

Activity% is a function that takes time alive and score obtained as input and spits out a multiplier.

In Air RB, this comes out at a maximum around 95-97% at 12 mintues and 1500-2000 score then decays for staying alive longer while getting enough score to sustain 90+% becomes very hard to nearly impossible - yielding 80% activity games even for 2200 score (5 kills or so in a mode without respawns).

In ground, the activity system behaves really weirdly. If you stay alive for the whole match, it behaves as you expect for air realistic. However, if you respawn your activity% seems to become some form of averaging of the score and time survived across the different vehicles. I struggle to pinpoint its exact mechanic as my special interest lies in othher game modes for obsessive data gathering.

However, even without exact data it’s clear that with very high probability, the best reward for a match requires surviving to the end without respawning.

A single kill, assuming 100% activity and no victory bonus is equal to surviving for 80 seconds.
A single capture, assuming 100% activity and no victory bonus is equal to surviving for 167 minutes.

Even at 80% activity, we only need to survive for 200 seconds to get the same RP reward as a single solo point capture.

At 10 minutes of survival at 80% activity, you need to single-handedly capture a point ~3 times to get the same RP income. THREE TIMES.

And we havn’t considered the full formula.

Without victory bonus (1.34 loss multiplier, 1.0 economy modifier, 100% activity):
94 RP for cap= 1.34 x 1.0 x 1 x 0.56 x ? (using ? rather than x due to forum formatting)
? = 125 seconds.

If we lose the game, have 100% activity, we only need to survive a whooping 125 seconds to get as much RP as capturing the point! If we assume 80% activity, we need to survive 156 seconds.

Crazy!

What if we win?
94 RP for cap= 2 x 1.0 x 1 x 0.56 x ?
? = 83 seconds

With 80%, 104 seconds!

Do you see how little personal benefit there is to capturing a point if doing so means you die earlier?

If you stay alive, gain score to be within the 80-95% activity range and win? You’ve hit jackpot.

Now kills.

Kills get funny.

Kills give pitiful RP per kill - only 45. However. Kills give us a universal RP multiplier for all RP sources in the match (at least in air battles it applies for all RP sources I tested).

So.

What’s the optimal ground battle in terms of progression?

Survive for 12 minutes in a single life. Get 8 kills for 100% RP bonus. Get ~2000 score and win before 15 minutes pass.

If you respawn, predicting how the activity% and time alive will reward you RP for your score gets really weird, but so far I found you get less RP for 500 score 5 minutes alive, 500 score 5 minutes alive compared to 1000 score 10 minutes alive.

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315

The funny thing to me here is that - despite being 50/50 odds of baing on Red or Blue - you observed this behavior only on Blue somehow. Statistically I think that what might have happened is that - on 2 teams of 16 - on one side, 8 were sniping and on the other, only 7 were.

Anyway, there’s a much more proactive solution sitting at your fingertips when you’re playing longer sessions.

Normalize being social and just…hosting the party you want to attend - when you see someone pushing up and showing the sort of teamwork you’d like…throw them an impromptu Squad invite.

Some will ignore the invite. Some won’t see the invite.

Some will join you for a single game.

Some will join you for multiple rounds.

Heck, you might get a Squadron Invite from someone and find suddenly you’ve basically always got someone you can squad up with.

When you have 16 Rugged Individualists all working to try to achieve their own Rugged Individualist Goals - all it takes is just 2 or 3 people working in a team AND COMMUNICATING (There’s built in voice comms. Get that working) to gain a significant advantage in the match.

That’s - oh, so much easier than trying to exhort people who are playing all BRs and Time Zones different than you to exhibit the behavior you want. You’re well into Rank V, so there aren’t any newbies left on the field with you. What you see is what you’re gonna get.

Which is why it’s so much easier to change your own behavior (to become social and incentivize the behavior you want to encourage) than it is to try to shout at clouds trying to get everyone else to change.

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This guy knows how to have fun and keep it going.

It IS only when these people see it happen on thier team that they have issue with it, compared to the red team they just steamrolled.

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317

Great post and thanks for sharing. Is there a list that includes points for repairing, firefighting and scouting?

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Only got for what I’ve linked :v.

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Slow clap

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New player to the game, kinda. Some of the group I used to sim race with also played WT and I started an account years ago. I also played a lot of COD4 before I got into serious sim racing at which time COD became boring to me.

Anyway…I treat this game much the same way I treated COD: Find the choke points, find the patterns, find the flanks, attack when necessary and stop and hold when needed.

Because I am so inexperienced in this game and trying to gain the experience I tend to go against the grain. If I see a bunch of people going toward A cap I will go to B or C because I know there will be others from the other team going to those caps. My thinking is that I am not good enough to hold a cap without help, but if I can keep the cap clean by posting in a certain spot that offers me a good view of the approaches and good protection from a flank, then I can sit there and snipe at those who approach the cap.

If the cap is taken by our team (help comes along) I will see which cap needs help and go to that cap to duke it out. From that point I will move from point to point in order to lend help where needed.

I will also flank on maps that allow it. My thinking is that both actions will, eventually, lead to the other team covering that flank, thus taking pressure off the caps we are contending for. Sometime is works, sometimes it does not.

The problem is that due to my skill, there are times where I will get taken out quickly. Other times I can hold the opposition off the cap and drag more of their players into my fray. I eventually get taken out but the more tanks I can take out before I get taken out the less to pressure the other caps.

Often I can be an “anvil” for the team by holding and attracting the oppo, but then I see my team leaving a cap after taking it instead of some people staying on the cap and holding it but not coming to be a “hammer”.

There are also times where my team can push to one oppo spawn while I hold “my” cap open, forgetting that the ten remaining oppo players are going to spawn from the other spawn and then take or retake the caps we have taken.

My strategy does not work all the time, but when it does work it can make a huge difference in the shape of the game.

IMO, this game is not about rushing headlong into battle, or standing back and taking pot-shots, but a mixture of tactics that if done well can be successful…or not.

But…It is a game. Fun.

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321

Your playing the macro game. Clearly multiple steps above the standard WT players.
Wish more players would think like this. the matches would be spicier than what is currently is.

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Funny. Thought this thread died off. But here we all are again, with boths teams sitting near their own spawn holding hands. A full team and no tickets because no one wants to move for a cap… :-

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There is no real incentive to win, as many have said recently its an antisocial game. Winning bonus is like 140% vs 120% for losing? Theres no MMR, people in the game dont communicate or really care, no voice chat, until recently you could only send a txt message like once every 30 seconds…

3rd person camera, hit markers, scouting, binos without exposing commander etc. means that pushing is usually punished hard. Going to a cap is also a giant beacon letting the entire enemy team know where you are. CAS also gets this info for whatever reason.

Only time I cap a point is if I want SP to spawn CAS lmao. Maybe decap a point if its a close match later on in the game and 80% of my team hasn’t left.

Standing in circles is an awful objective for tank based gameplay, and this type of objective based gameplay has been evolving over the years (Advance and Secure/RAAS) and gaijin cant even keep up with that, let alone make proper objectives for this type of game.

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The bonus for win is not what it used to be. They made if “fair” so now winning and losing team have similar rewards.

There were a spreadsheets that were showing, that taking an average of 50% win rate and bonuses for win into account you are now earning less rewards than when we had old system.

But community were fooled by gaijin and voted to “make rewards more fair”, basically nerfing rewards.

1 Like