People (including you I assume since you didn’t mention it) never talk about or include the Tiger’s incredible turret armor in the equation when talking about how armored the Tiger 1 is. All throughout WT’s history (to my knowledge, I joined in 2017) the Tiger 1’s turret has been an incredibly difficult thing for a lot of tanks to pen hull down.
I feel like I should say this is more of a follow up side tangent to your comment than a direct reply
It will be by the time Tiger II production variants go up to 7.0, which I strongly suspect will happen with the next changes.
In this case T-54 should get higher to not rape Tiger 2.
And then we’re back with them being in the same range as the Leopard 1 anyways, and then the Panther ll and KT 105 can go higher as well and fight 8.3, or maybe we move the Leopard to 8.3 so it can face 9.3 and then 9.3 goes to 9.7 but we won’t increase the BRs so we’re really just doing nothing and call it decompression.
The biggest issue is stuff like the VIDAR.
Of course. Gaijin keeps moving compression spots around. It can’t truly decompress if it doesn’t lift the BR ceiling.
Nevertheless, that is what I expect to happen. It’ll go to 7.0, which will be very annoying.
The problem is if they move up the tiger 2H and equal vehicles like T34 then the first decompression was useless. The main goal was to decompress late ww2 tanks from cold war tanks. If they move them up they have decompressed 4.3 to 5.3 (a br region which didn’t decompression in my opinion)
Stop winning so much with it if you want it to go down.
You can argue til you’re blue in the face about this or that armor gun blah blah. But it’s all just observably wrong, if people keep winning too much in it anyway. Lose more games, kill fewer tanks: BR will go down. But you don’t want to do that, of course, you’re not looking for balance. You want to keep winning a ton AND have it go down so you can seal club. Yawn.
I actually agree with this, but also the basic pershing, t44, t44-100 should also go down by a notch
Did Gaijin actually state this? Actually it seemed like a movement to later decompress around 5.0.
4.7 no longer has to face as many strong heavies.
I think it was one of the main points of the review bombing (moving cold war vehicles away from ww2 vehicles)
I think that was the economy. But actually I do think I have seen a mention about it from Gaijin in hindsight.
I think people also forget it has seperated the gap for some vehicles, maybe the ones that definately struggle against x,y,z.
Still, 4.7 is now better. Current 6.7s are not seeing anything new, in fact less cold war, just not as much as some wanted personally. Hence Carnarvon and Conqueror share same BR (Carnarvon being initially 6.7 with no stab and really poor performing AP).
Gosh, now just imagine not having the long 88, smoke grenades, or even some armor.
Oh wait… Germany truly does suffer indeed.
The M26 shouldn’t have gone to 6.7 either. It’s not like either invalidates the other.
Also M26 have kamikaze shell load in front of turret, ATGM will oneshot it if hit turret face.
Oh, I’m 100% in agreement with both you and @ID_Heaven. The M26 should be IMO 6.0 and the Tiger II (P) still 6.3. Then the M26 would be a good fit for the Panthers that just got moved up to 6.0.
I guess…but my surprise is not that players will complain about their “preferred” vehicles, as that is fairly common…is that in this thread they are choosing VERY STRONG vehicles…and “forgetting” the many sot so good vehicles at same BR…
Asking for TigerII, or M26 to go down in BR is plain odd…KTs are deadly at 7.0…at 6.3 they would be a menace to everything below…makes no sense IMHO!
You cant compare KTs to M26s only…there is a huge number of other vehicles that are not so good but have the same BRs…
M26 at same BR as Panther makes no sense…and even worse for the other 6.0s that dont have the Panther gun…
I agree on the Tiger II … I wonder if the Tiger II H will stay even at 6.7. It still rocks many many matches and it is one of the most played tanks at this BR.
Take H variant to 7.0 since there is no reason to leave it with P and below 10,5cm
I never enjoyed the Tiger II P. I only played it out of a sense of completionism, but I never really saw the point. The gun is exceptional, yes, but the vehicle is slow and the turret is a walking (driving?) weakspot.
So, to me, this is not about preferred vehicles. I really like the Tiger II Sla, and I will not be surprised if it goes up to 7.0, because I know how good it can be. I really dislike the Tiger II P, and therefore I was surprised to see it go up: because in my opinion, it’s bad.
Turret armour is always more important than hull armour in this game, for completely obvious reasons. The production variant Tiger IIs share this weakness with other heavies from other tech trees, but they’re still incredibly strong if you play them like mediums, especially because of the great RoF.
But the turret of the early Tiger II is an order of magnitude worse than that.
If I want to use a vehicle that sacrifices mobility for the long '88, and that has critical survivability weaknesses, I have better options, like two Jagdpanthers, one Ferdinand, and the Waffenträger. Hell, the Jagdpanthers are actually pretty damn fast. So even with the old BRs, I couldn’t really imagine a situation where spawning the Tiger II P was the best move for my odds of winning the match.
Full uptier? I would take something light and fast (JPz 4-5, or LeK which was still 6.3 back then).
Close quarters map? No vehicles in the old 6.3 lineup were suitable anyway, so all else being equal you might as well pick something that costs fewer SP.
Long range map? This is the only situation where the Tiger II P might shine, since people at range might actually hit your UFP instead of the turret, but the Jagdpanthers will get you to a good firing position earlier and have the same gun, and the Waffenträger is easier to hide and has better optics.
Now, at 6.7, this is even more lopsided, I’m confident to say there is no single situation in which it would ever make sense to spawn the P over any other tech tree option, not just on your first spawn, but all the following ones too.
This will be ameliorated somewhat when, inevitably, the production Tiger IIs will become 7.0. Even then, though, I don’t think I’ll ever really bother with the P. It’s rare for me to say something like that since I try to use and master every vehicle I have in game, but for this one I don’t really see the point.
Mate, the Panther is the gun. Seriously, what other standout feature does the tank have? The Panther is strong when it can get early to a good sniping position, because its gun retains high flat pen at range, and at that distance an imprecise center-mass shot that hits your UFP instead of the turret can be survived.
The moment you push up close (which 90% of the maps and 95% of the mission types in this game require you to do) the Panther’s advantages disappear. Its got an overall worse mobility than most of its peers, bad turret traverse, average RoF. The armour layout may be optimised for sniping, but it’s terrible for brawling, and leaves you very very vulnerable to CAS as well. Angle more than 5° and you’re dead. Play shoot and scoot, you’re usually dead. Your high flat pen does not matter at this short distance, because everyone can pen everyone else point blank, and your low explosive filler will make the Tiger E almost always a better option for actually pushing a cap.
Again, this isn’t about defending vehicles I like. Panthers are ok to me, but they’re nothing special and I don’t see the hype around them. They are tank destroyers that can get in position quickly and can survive strafing aircraft, while being worse tank destroyers than the real TDs in the German tech tree; and worse mediums than Tiger Is when it comes to actually playing the objectives.
5-10 degree angle and long 90mm can’t UFP pen you with aphe from 500-600m.