Take the Tiger II (P) back to 6.3

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
191

Congratulations on writing one of the dumbest pieces of rambling I’ve read on this forum.

You cannot learn a thing you think you know. Your arrogance will not let you see it, but it only works on you. It doesn’t blind anybody else.

I absolutely can get your point. Your point is that the ten battles you cited are undisputable evidence that Gaijin hates realism, German players, and F2P players in general.

That is false in so many ways that even listing them all would be a chore. Ten matches is statistically insignificant, for example, and YOU were the player (if you really wanted to evaluate the vehicle objectively you would have to select a representative sample of other people using it!), and as already said: you set yourself up for failure by not having a lineup or the flexibility to choose what to spawn in.

The only thing those ten matches prove, is that you had ten bad matches.

Sounds like a you issue.

You do not understand quantitative matchmaker. Max 4 players on a team, out of 16, can be top BR. This means that as a baseline, every WT player is uptiered 75% of the time.

The 6.7 - 7.7 bracket suffers from BR compression still. But that’s a separate issue from uptier frequency.

This is laughably false. I have premium and I mostly play the Tiger II in uptiers, because guess what, again - only max four people can be top BR in a match. Like every other War Thunder player, I’m uptiered most of the time.

Lol what? It’s from one (1) month ago. Not only you can tell because YouTube literally displays that information, you can tell by the crew voices as well, since they’re clearly post-update.

No German vehicle was removed over the past two years. The famous removed vehicles were in 2019. In any case, not pertinent to that video.

Shouting “nerfs!!!” generically is completely useless. Hundreds of vehicles underwent changes over the past two years. We’re talking Tiger IIs here, period.

No, in short, the guy using it is a good player who’s showing you how to extract the machine’s potential.

I don’t care.

I’ve met plenty of roadblocks when I started playing this game. I did what everybody who keeps playing does. I read the wiki entry for the vehicle I was having issues with. I watched YouTube for videos on how to use it well. I asked players with more experience. If a player gets to the Tiger II P and gives up the entire tree to go play another nation, then sure, good luck to them, hope they have fun. Literally what else did you expect me to say, that we should give special privilege to “new German players” with a “dream” of Leopard 2s?

Get out of here with that stuff man 😁

3 Likes
192

Tiger 2 P and Tiger 2 H 99% identical except Porsche has a weakspot, Henshel no. Even canned banana can understand that Porsche should be lower that Henshel, but not gaijin balancer.

193

I think it’s just british tanks being underpowered, not German ones overpowered. that title goes to USSR

194

Yeah APDS at that br is terrible

195

Ah yes, the legendary overpowered Soviet tanks of the 6.7 to 7.7 range.

If the IS-6 was still 7.0 I’d heartily agree, but let’s be real here, at 6.7 the Tiger 2 wins vs the IS-2 1944 on all metrics bar explosive filler. That’s it. The IS-2 is just as laughable at 6.7 as the Tiger 2 (P).

196

This isn’t about a year of production, its about performance. At the current moment, the Tiger II dominated over the T-34/85’s, 76mm Sherman, M26 to a certain extent. Although was on par with the T34 Proto heavy tank although that’s a 6.7 not a 6.3.

197

IS-2 1944 being a worse tank overall when compared to Tiger II (P) but no one cares.
USSR tank being on par with other tanks at it’s BR and everyone loses their mind

This is a classic.

198

Err…yes?
It is not really if they are skilled or not…players dont like uphill battles, so they skip them if able.
If you put players on WW2 mediums against WW2 heavies, many of them will skip the battle…leaving the heavies alone in the battle field.
Hell…you just have to check the large number of complaints about matchmaking (some specifically saying they cant kill a heavy with the tank they are given) or the number of players that leave because they dont like A MAP.

Many nations in WT simply dont have anything in WW2 roster that can fight a King Tiger…so they are given cold war vehicles.

I PERSONALLY would like to have asymmetrical scenarios, where the heavies would be outnumbered and/or versus mediums with air support…preferably historical situations. BUT after some years in this game i can see that it is difficult to make an asymmetrical scenario that players will play…
And there are nations that simply are hard to include in a historical situation…Sweden, Italy, France (in late WW2), Japan…

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199

Because the game has been catering to those complaints for years making it the standard that heavy tanks get uptiered to a point where their armor is only able to resist a very small number of vehicles a full BR lower and the vast majority of vehicles in an up or down tier being able to kill it, so people are used to playing whatever they want and never running into something they cannot kill.

Add to this this complete clown show of what is happening to the maps where half the maps are just lazily deleted by making them out of bounds, creating extremely linear maps with zero room for flanking or strategy and just head on stuff, you cannot even rely on flanking anymore.

Game is being dumbed down more and more.

200

Not my experience. Jumbos, KV1s, King Tigers, M26s, Tigers, B1s…out of my head these are tanks that often are hard to kill. I play with them and versus them…in many games they are a difficult enemy to kill AND/OR can survive a few shots when used properly…
OF COURSE that if full uptiered they are much more vulnerable…in these cases i usually prefer to use something with a good gun…KT, M26 still work…but Jumbos or B1s would be harder to use…

It is a situational vehicle…but Maus can soak up lots of shots…“just” have to be lucky to avoid ATGMs and aircaft…

201

Jumbos are about the only thing that are actually armored for it’s BR but in an uptier that’s quickly over, KV-1s only against some nation, that’s about it, very few vehicles are going to struggle with 100-120mm at 6.7 that they cannot kill a Tiger ll P.

Maus having to rely on luck despite being THE heavy armor tank says enough about the state of heavy tanks, their armor is mostly a downside, whilst light armor tanks have been the meta with mobility, firepower, no armor best armor, lowest spawn costs, scouting, drones and everything whilst heavy tanks got the highest spawncost and no redeeming factors because Gaijin has always pretended heavy tanks had some sort of advantage.

202

Most of the higher tier heavies are hilariously weak, being usable only in full downtiers, while in full uptiers they are nothing more than a RP pinata.

203

AGAIN…yes…this is part of the game. Heavy tanks with weak guns do not handle uptiers well. Conversely, they are dominant when they are top tier. A Jumbo as a top tier is a killing machine that can take lots of punishment…when full uptiered it becomes a target.
THERE IS NO WAY to solve this…push it either side and it becomes too weak or too strong…the BR is a key to balance…

BUT…this leads me to the point on this TOPIC…the King Tiger is VERY WELL armed. When top tier it is hard to kill and can kill anything…when fully uptiered it becomes easier to kill BUT keeps most of its killing power. We can play KT fully uptiered…saw players be #1 rank on KTs with +1BR opponents.

Not sure if it is correct BR right now…but pretty sure it can be played as it is…lots of them around and they are still very dangerous…

204

Gonna have to say no i got a normally match with the tiger after br changes and i just slapped the other team and they had tanks that could kill me its fine where it is

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205

I was talking about higher tier heavies, Jumbo certainly isn’t that.

206

That’s not exactly 99% then, is it? 😛

You also forgot that it’s slower. But anyway, the difference in frontal turret protection is not small. It’s huge.

I think that will “fix itself” when the production variants become 7.0. But this will be done without decompression of 8.0 and above, and will be insanely annoying. Otherwise, I’m fine with 7.0.

Correct. That further convinces me the production variants are going up.

And the T29 also, on the American side.

I had a mix of atrocious and great matches yesterday, the best by far was at Fields Of Normandy where I got within 35 spawn points of a nuke by the time we won the match. It was a full uptier.

If a mediocre player like me can do that with a Tiger II at 7.7, I feel confident in saying that you can have fun with it even in a full uptier.

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207

There is a 76mm jumbo…but either way, the “top tier” heavies are usually better armed than jumbos (comparatively)…so they can usually fight in a top tier.
As an example…T29 (and related T tanks) is a very competent vehicle…fast enough for a heavy, very good when top tier and gun is good enough when uptiered.
I dont have them…but i read that the IS series is similar…
The KT series also works well…i frequently don’t care what i am fighting…88mm gun can kill WW2 heavies and Cold War MBTs or Lights…as long as i am skilled enough to hit them.
Not sure about Brit heavies…and other nations wont have WW2 heavies i think…

MY POINT…(top tier) Heavy tanks work well, as long as you “forget” they are heavy tanks…at top tier their mobility is much better (with some exceptions) so they are usable as medium. No longer invulnerable, but also no longer toothless.
It is no accident that US changed the T26 to M26…

208

I missed this part of the discussion. IS2s are an odd thing to me…gun is great BUT reload is very slow…as i miss a lot i can’t use them…not sure if user error, or if the tank is not so good. (Also not a fan of gun depression)
I personally think IS2s are too high in BR, but i admit it may be just me that don’t know how to use them. I die A LOT more to KTs than IS2s…and i have problems vs IS3, IS4, IS6 and IS7…

209

Yet light tanks do not have this issue, their armor gets treated as a weakness rather than a strength leading them to have disproportionally strong firepower relative to the competition to ‘make up’ for their lack of armor, which really just leads to light tanks being the most survivable, mobile and having equal or better firepower than all the competition, as well as the lowest SP cost, granted that has been balanced a bit over the years, scouting and drones.

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210

No, I think you’re right. I was perplexed when they went up in BR, and I think the other heavies are about to also go up for exactly that reason.