considering everything im guessing the T90M hull has an aproximate of 750 to 800 at max effectiveness against an semi infinite projectile without anything considerable, probably around 700 against projectiles such as M829A3 or DM53 wich have great density and have anti ERA features
A more correct translation of the part would be “protection against APFSDS such as M829A2, A3 or APFSDS penetrating up to 800mm”.
It doesn´t matter how you represent the specific protection of a specific armor type against a specific projectile, what matters is if it penetrates or not. Warthunder doesn´t yet go that far because it would have to model the specific performance of projectiles with anti-ERA features vs 2nd generation ERA protected tanks.
Likewise, the performance of M829A3 is complex to represent in raw numbers, because its designed to cheat its way through Kontakt 5. Nevertheless, its innefectiveness vs Relikt is claimed by both Nii Stali and ATK (manufacturer of M829A3). So, it doesn´t matter if you represent M829A3 as capable of penetrating 710 (which is the result the L-O formula yields), 750 or 800, the bottom line is that it can´t go through Relikt equipped tanks. Same for DM53, M338 and all other rounds designed originally to deal with Kontakt 5.
As for the rating of T-series hulls and turrets, its all anchored in primary source that Gaijin already used. Though we now have a lot more data on T-90M turret and we don´t have certainty on it reusing T-90A´s armor array but we just assume it does.
All this said, we can go back to the original issue which was about estimating T-14 front armor protection.
1 Like
i mean issue is that it could’ve been against a standard density of 17.5 kg cm/3 wich would’ve been mostly rought calcuations, + idk if the protection its on turret or hull, and seems like this was just a rough calculation if there was a test of it it would be good
No, I calculated using the standard DU density of 18.6 kg cm/3.
For M829A3 being capable of penetrating exactly 800mm of steel, it would need a penetrator with a length of 787mm, which per sources it doesn´t have.
yeah that’s the thing the penetrator its 630 mm in lenght and it has a 100 mm Steel tip according to patents
they normally estimate pen of 660 to 700 mm but people who say 800 mm are over exagerating by a lot, altough the patent does say “preferably 670 mm” so yeah kinda vague
The patent describes the penetrator as somewhere between 660 to 690 while the steel tip being also 100 or 120mm. Thats why I estimated in a best case scenario and still it doesn´t pen anywhere close to 800mm in steel.
ik and i stated myself that 800 mm of penetration its an overestimation; 660 to 700 mm of penetration its a closer value
This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.
Not reeallt “rumored” its what they claim, now theyve not showed any proof for those claims and the aps hasnt really seen any use yet. So id take that with a grain of salt, also they claim to have a remote controller machine gun capable of tracking and shooting down incoming missiles.
1 Like
That video does have a few pieces of straight up wrong info (like the sla 16 thing isnt backed by anything) but it does point out how absurd the t14 procurement is goinf and the claimed capabilities are.
The second one it’s more doubtfull than the first one at least the aps thing seems more viable but the second one it’s uh shady
neither of the options is likely, the russians have claimed to have a functioning aps capable of competing with trophy for years now, though we’ve not seen any adoption yet, i wonder why, not even their usual “adoption” in which they build a dozen vehicles with it and then just forget about it for a decade, as for the machinegun, the idea is bad in the first place.
yeah no mate. that ain cutting it.
Arena-M was adopted though.
i think ive seen a single picture of it being put onto a tank and ive never seen it besides then, never appeared in actual combat, which for something that was fitted onto t72s and t90s as a way to show off its adoption just leaves me very skeptical on the scale of its adoption, i dont think ive seen more than a picture of it being on a tank, especially cause now with the rapid decommision of the soviet t80 stocks russia has been commtting fully to making t90m, you’d expect to see more Arena-m’s being used if that was actually adopted. yet to see a single one tho
We know several contacts were signed at Army-2024 for the Arena-M to be installed, so it’s not hard to assume adoption.
that really doesnt mean anything in the context of russia though. im not using their definition of adoption here.
until they start to actually put into a service a relevant number of tanks(in general afvs) with it my argument still stands.
That’s fine, either we we know they exist and can be added.
not a big fan of adding such an uknown system, especially when its claimed capabilities are quite good
I think it’s needed, especially with the dawn of cas.