Israel could start at rank 1 for both air and ground, as well as get the copy-paste that hasn’t been added to ranks 1 - 5.
It’s why talking about “what ifs” is pointless.
We both know Gaijin will avoid adding too much copy-paste in a dedicated tech tree, after all China’s the only tech tree with around half their vehicles being copy-paste. The rest have significantly less.
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that is surely why they add sub-tree with 15 vehicles. only 1 been a unique vehicle to France. i see there all the effort Gaijin put to avoid copy paste. i also saw it when there were 8 magach added at the same time…
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Well half of the air is unique so far.
+1 more than half if you’re going from the 3D modeler perspective.
There are no Magachs that are copy-paste of one another except the premium that was delisted from America.
And the Magach 1 is the only copy-paste Magach in the tech tree being an M48.
Magach 2 is an M48A2 [no mods] which isn’t in any other tech tree.
Germany has their own unique M48A2s.
And if “cosmetic differences” means copy-paste I’m about to call most Shermans, Panthers, Tigers, Panzer IIIs, Panzer IVs, and so on copy-paste on behalf of anyone claiming that. Oh, and all Leclercs are copy-paste of each other on that same argument… which is why I dislike those that say “Um actually, Mirage 5BA is just copy-paste of Mirage 5F.”
they could have added half the magach they have right now and the tech tree would have been just more playable.
having the vehicles slightly different externally is not enough to make it an unique vehicles. but France is not like Israel. there is a ton of vehicles that France produced, tested, and used that is not from the other tech tree. in both aviation and ground. but what gaijin did in their vast effort to avoid copy-paste is give them a sub-tech tree with a single unique vehicle out of 15
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Not without them being almost entirely foreign vehicles.
Yet here you are, talking about what ifs.
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My issue with sub-trees(oldest to newest):
South Africa:
Well, the most “unique”, it was never added for its uniqueness but to give the UK lights which in turn delayed the UK’s domestic lights like the CVRTs for years. On top of that for most of what I experienced, it’s just the worst of the UK but with wheels(to the point the first thing I enjoyed down that line was the Fox). On top of that the number of vehicles it has access to effectively ties it with Canada(making these two have the two most potential with vehicles they can get) out of the dominions and should have been its own independent tree.
Finland:
Finlands placement in Sweden is something no one has a problem with myself included. Its problem comes from somewhere else, Gaijin picking to add next to nothing but C&P for them. The Finnish sub should have been made up of its unique vehicles and modifications they had a ton of.
Hungary:
Well, Hungry did bring a few more unique vehicles it also destroyed Italy’s Western identity as a TT. This one showed the issues with picking sub-trees based on WW2. To top it off its airside not only didn’t really come with WW2 and was also all C&P. This And well I don’t have as much to say on this just that it should have been part of a V4/other type of Warsaw pact tree or even its tree own.
BeNeLux:
This is the current star of the show showing all the issues with sub-trees. Not only did France not need a sub-tree but the BeNeLux has a ton of unique vehicles. At the very least the sub-tree could have been close to 100% unique. Gaijin will claim it as unique due to giving to variants of UK/US and French planes but most people won’t see it that way. BeNeLux should have been added as a new nation because despite what Gaijin claim they do have enough(heck the entire reason it was proposed as a combined tree was to up the number of unique vehicles well also lowering the number of C&P while making sure there is enough for events and what not.)
India:
India has the same problem of bringing Eastern tech into Western nations. Mix with the fact that the UK already had a sub-tree making it more than full. Well, we have yet to see the full impact of this what little we have has been already bad enough. On top of that India has plenty of vehicles to pick from and should have been an Israeli-style TT.
(not yet fully confirmed)
Switzerland:
Germany being one of the 3 major nations is an already full tech tree with very little room. Heck, all it is being added for is its F-18, which is another sub-tree that just shows the true nature of the sub-trees. only existing to buff the host nation not present the sub-nation. At the end of the day, almost all of Switzerland’s stuff will end up as battlepass and event if this goes through. Swissernalnd should be it own tree/Alpine tree.
Thailand:
This could be the only other sub-tree that wouldn’t have issues. To top it off as far as I’ve seen they use mostly Western or Westernized equipment mostly keeping Japan’s identity.
As for the other ASEAN nations, I don’t agree with keeping them all together as a sub. instead, they should be split up(but each nation kept together) and given to nations where applicable.
To me, the current success rate of sub-trees has been (0.5+0.5)/5 which says a lot about the fact it only has a 1 out of 5 due to half success with sub-trees so far. It’s not looking good for the future, with the success rate only ever becoming 2 and the sub-tree number counting to go up with the rumoured future plans.
Something a bit personal but I’m not a fan of “combined trees” especially those with large numbers of nations like a “commonwealth tree”. And will always argue for these to be split up into as small as reasonable trees for nation counts. 3-4 nations in a tree are already pushing it for me 5+ nations and I feel are too many nations in a tree.
As for C&P, I personally don’t have a problem with them, themselves but the fact they are often added over/instead of domestic vehicles. Like sure, add a C&P folder underneath a domestic/unique equivalent but it should never be what comes first.
Overall the sub-tree system to me is a failure and unlikely to become a success unless they remake how sub-trees work into something like the Nation Folders here.
The other issue comes from Gaijin’s need to make every nation competitive and have a vehicle at the top BR in every game mode. And well making everyone competitive is something good it should be able to be done by fixing and making the nation’s unique stuff and removing the need for a top BR everything. So what if the nation MBT can’t be 12.0, make them 11.7 and below they don’t need to have a 12.0 tank.
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The Magach 2 is an M48A2C and the Magach 6 is an M60.
The unique German M48A2 you are referring to is the M48A2CGA1. Germany has the M48A2C.
They have significantly more than just cosmetic differences.
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actually, more than half can be native variants. i am not solely speaking of a change of machine gun or radio set like those dutch leopard 2. but a change of main gun, new turret, and sometimes complete rebuild of exiting vehicles. they did build a multi-turreted half-track tank in 1948. they have a lot of wacky vehicles.
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I have looked at multiple proposals for tiers 1 to 3 for Israel, and none of them had more than 5 Israeli vehicles.
you didn’t really look far did you?
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Not all of those would be in tier 1, 2, or 3, and it’s unrealistic to expect all of them when some are incredibly similar to others.
yeah, all those are fit for rank 1 to 3 without exception. and this is twice as much listed. and a bunch of variants as well.
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“Fit for” and “would be in” are not the same.
And again,
i would not call a Sherman with a german 75mm gun or a 20mm gun similar to the American Sherman.
i would not call a M3 halftrack with a turret similar to any other halftrack.
i think you just do not want to admit it’s totally feasible and plausible. all those vehicles have their performance compared and confirmed to match the performance to the average Rank 1 to 3 with some of them having very similar vehicles performance-wise already in the game.
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So your post’s argument is that all the Leclercs are copy-paste.
Whether you intend for that or not, that’s what you argue by claiming the following unique aircraft are copy-paste:
Mirage 5BA, Fokker G1, Gladiator Mk1, F-16A [some Block 15 variant], F-16AM.
5 of 11 aircraft.
For ground we currently have unique vehicles:
CV9035NL.
6 of 12 total vehicles.
Dunno what 3 vehicles I’m allegedly missing here.
You disputed your own argument.
Also rank 3 goes up to BR 5.7; all of the photographs CalD posted would be rank 3 or lower. None of them touch BR 6+.
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I wasn’t making the argument. It wasn’t mine.
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This is everything relevant that you said
Your argument was that most Shermans, Panthers, Tigers, Panzer IIIs, and Panzer IVs would be considered copy and paste if cosmetic differences is the line. I was explaining that there is much more to, for example, the Panther D vs A than just cosmetic differences.
There is no set BR for tier. There never has been.
i do not call this unique.
only the Fokker G1 can claim to be unique in all of those.
a reskin and different propeller is not what i call unique enough. beside UK can also have the same version.
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If I recall the Belgian Gladiator is supposed to have .50 Cals. They didn’t even give it that
Giving a “we are looking into it” statement and then never doing anything about it.
the BR remains a reference, at BR 6.0 you are falling pretty much in rank 4. There is almost no vehicles in BR 5.7 at rank 4. therefore, those vehicles are very lightly to fall at rank 1-2-3 and none for rank 4. There is already many vehicles in Rank 4, no need to stretch weak vehicles to this area.
