NEED
TERMINATEUR
NOW
Or ebrc jaguar
2 Likes
Due to how close Belgium and Switzerland are militarily, BeNeLux + Switzerland would have been great. Switzerland has enough for ground on its own, however would struggle for air, which is where the Netherlands and Belgium jump in.
3 Likes
the EBRC Jaguar is one of those vehicles mentioned that would be more needed than a new MBT in the upper tier. but there is also some others.
1 Like
in the air, it would have just enough, but if you add an Austrian as sub tech tree, since Austria is politically and historically has close ties, it would beef up the air tree very well and make the tech tree an Alpine tech tree.
austria has a few unique vehicles, the SK105 and 4K 7FA family do add some interest. but it’s mainly the addition of actual conventional tanks for rank 3 and their aviation that makes them needed.
1 Like
With a gargantuan amount of foreign vehicles. I would rather avoid another Israel.
2 Likes
D3800 family (7 aircraft), C3600 Family (5 aircraft or more) the P-16 family (at least 5 aircraft) the Aquilon, the Milan, the D.27 family, and the C35 family. they do have a lot of interesting aircraft regardless. too much for Germany to handle in their tech tree.
2 Likes
more reason for it to be spread out among nations or be its own nation
1 Like
Majority of these are either unsuitable (especially the reserves, they are much worse than even the current worse reserves), are direct copy pastes (Bf 109s, Mustangs, etc.) or licenced production copy paste (Doflugs), aren’t in the game but would more suitably fit with their original country of manufacture (RO.37), or not built (one of the EFWs).
I like that our vehicles are going to France.
I agree here. France is one of the two “minor” country in game (along with UK) that do not need a subtree, especially when they have tons of vehicle waiting to be added, some already being copy paste so no need to add foreign vehicles OR foreign copy paste that are not related to the country at all.
Same for air, i mean the Belgian mirage is okay to be added, since it’s still something French, but Gladiator ? F-16 ? it’s weird. (Would add again that the BeNeLux air tree only added 1 unique aircraft,and that only the Spitfire is mostly useful because France do not have much fighter at 5.7, but Free France Spitfire exist, so…).
With subtrees, every country are less unique, now you can have F-16 and Leopard playing France, so no point of playing Germany after the Tiger and no need to bother grinding the massive American air tree, people will just rush the French F-16 like they did rush the KF41 in the Italian tree.
Tons of French ground vehicles (prototype or not, export or not) are waiting to be added,at every BR so i really think there is no need for for that subtree.
5 Likes
As a 3D modeler, I cannot say they will be copy-paste or not, especially not seeing them.
Making reckless assumptions is not helpful.
Less unique vehicles than China, and less total vehicles than Israel.
No thanks.
Personally, I’d like them to ditch the current copy+paste vehicles and add actual unique ones. I don’t play France to get non-French vehicles.
One actually unique aircraft in the entire subtree is pathetic.
Also, the Dutch 2A4 wouldn’t even have a lineup.
12 Likes
If you mean current vehicles, that shouldn’t be used as a comparing point, only the total possible number.
If you mean the total number, considering the absolutely enormous number of Chinese vehicles, that means nothing.
That’s not true. For air, there’s significantly more, and the tree could go from tier 1 to 8. For ground, the number is similar.
2 Likes
Israel could start at rank 1 for both air and ground, as well as get the copy-paste that hasn’t been added to ranks 1 - 5.
It’s why talking about “what ifs” is pointless.
We both know Gaijin will avoid adding too much copy-paste in a dedicated tech tree, after all China’s the only tech tree with around half their vehicles being copy-paste. The rest have significantly less.
1 Like
that is surely why they add sub-tree with 15 vehicles. only 1 been a unique vehicle to France. i see there all the effort Gaijin put to avoid copy paste. i also saw it when there were 8 magach added at the same time…
4 Likes
Well half of the air is unique so far.
+1 more than half if you’re going from the 3D modeler perspective.
There are no Magachs that are copy-paste of one another except the premium that was delisted from America.
And the Magach 1 is the only copy-paste Magach in the tech tree being an M48.
Magach 2 is an M48A2 [no mods] which isn’t in any other tech tree.
Germany has their own unique M48A2s.
And if “cosmetic differences” means copy-paste I’m about to call most Shermans, Panthers, Tigers, Panzer IIIs, Panzer IVs, and so on copy-paste on behalf of anyone claiming that. Oh, and all Leclercs are copy-paste of each other on that same argument… which is why I dislike those that say “Um actually, Mirage 5BA is just copy-paste of Mirage 5F.”
they could have added half the magach they have right now and the tech tree would have been just more playable.
having the vehicles slightly different externally is not enough to make it an unique vehicles. but France is not like Israel. there is a ton of vehicles that France produced, tested, and used that is not from the other tech tree. in both aviation and ground. but what gaijin did in their vast effort to avoid copy-paste is give them a sub-tech tree with a single unique vehicle out of 15
2 Likes
Not without them being almost entirely foreign vehicles.
Yet here you are, talking about what ifs.
1 Like
My issue with sub-trees(oldest to newest):
South Africa:
Well, the most “unique”, it was never added for its uniqueness but to give the UK lights which in turn delayed the UK’s domestic lights like the CVRTs for years. On top of that for most of what I experienced, it’s just the worst of the UK but with wheels(to the point the first thing I enjoyed down that line was the Fox). On top of that the number of vehicles it has access to effectively ties it with Canada(making these two have the two most potential with vehicles they can get) out of the dominions and should have been its own independent tree.
Finland:
Finlands placement in Sweden is something no one has a problem with myself included. Its problem comes from somewhere else, Gaijin picking to add next to nothing but C&P for them. The Finnish sub should have been made up of its unique vehicles and modifications they had a ton of.
Hungary:
Well, Hungry did bring a few more unique vehicles it also destroyed Italy’s Western identity as a TT. This one showed the issues with picking sub-trees based on WW2. To top it off its airside not only didn’t really come with WW2 and was also all C&P. This And well I don’t have as much to say on this just that it should have been part of a V4/other type of Warsaw pact tree or even its tree own.
BeNeLux:
This is the current star of the show showing all the issues with sub-trees. Not only did France not need a sub-tree but the BeNeLux has a ton of unique vehicles. At the very least the sub-tree could have been close to 100% unique. Gaijin will claim it as unique due to giving to variants of UK/US and French planes but most people won’t see it that way. BeNeLux should have been added as a new nation because despite what Gaijin claim they do have enough(heck the entire reason it was proposed as a combined tree was to up the number of unique vehicles well also lowering the number of C&P while making sure there is enough for events and what not.)
India:
India has the same problem of bringing Eastern tech into Western nations. Mix with the fact that the UK already had a sub-tree making it more than full. Well, we have yet to see the full impact of this what little we have has been already bad enough. On top of that India has plenty of vehicles to pick from and should have been an Israeli-style TT.
(not yet fully confirmed)
Switzerland:
Germany being one of the 3 major nations is an already full tech tree with very little room. Heck, all it is being added for is its F-18, which is another sub-tree that just shows the true nature of the sub-trees. only existing to buff the host nation not present the sub-nation. At the end of the day, almost all of Switzerland’s stuff will end up as battlepass and event if this goes through. Swissernalnd should be it own tree/Alpine tree.
Thailand:
This could be the only other sub-tree that wouldn’t have issues. To top it off as far as I’ve seen they use mostly Western or Westernized equipment mostly keeping Japan’s identity.
As for the other ASEAN nations, I don’t agree with keeping them all together as a sub. instead, they should be split up(but each nation kept together) and given to nations where applicable.
To me, the current success rate of sub-trees has been (0.5+0.5)/5 which says a lot about the fact it only has a 1 out of 5 due to half success with sub-trees so far. It’s not looking good for the future, with the success rate only ever becoming 2 and the sub-tree number counting to go up with the rumoured future plans.
Something a bit personal but I’m not a fan of “combined trees” especially those with large numbers of nations like a “commonwealth tree”. And will always argue for these to be split up into as small as reasonable trees for nation counts. 3-4 nations in a tree are already pushing it for me 5+ nations and I feel are too many nations in a tree.
As for C&P, I personally don’t have a problem with them, themselves but the fact they are often added over/instead of domestic vehicles. Like sure, add a C&P folder underneath a domestic/unique equivalent but it should never be what comes first.
Overall the sub-tree system to me is a failure and unlikely to become a success unless they remake how sub-trees work into something like the Nation Folders here.
The other issue comes from Gaijin’s need to make every nation competitive and have a vehicle at the top BR in every game mode. And well making everyone competitive is something good it should be able to be done by fixing and making the nation’s unique stuff and removing the need for a top BR everything. So what if the nation MBT can’t be 12.0, make them 11.7 and below they don’t need to have a 12.0 tank.
6 Likes
The Magach 2 is an M48A2C and the Magach 6 is an M60.
The unique German M48A2 you are referring to is the M48A2CGA1. Germany has the M48A2C.
They have significantly more than just cosmetic differences.
4 Likes