I personally only want 1 or 2 top tier Canadian Leopards as there would be too much C&P but I would love a Leo 2A6M CAN that would help the lack of the Challngers’ problems being fixed in any capacity
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Canadian Hornet is the newest addition. First canadian Leopard went to germany all the way back in 2020 IIRC, second canadian leopard was added as premium last year.
Its a weak argument youre making, made worse by the fact that gaijin stated canadian and australian vehicles will go whenever.
Currently, the UK TT has;
- 10/17 Canadian vehicles
- 16/17 Australian vehicles
- 2/2 New Zealand vehicles
- 22/23 South African vehicles
- 7/7 Indian vehicles
On the surface Canada is statistically getting shafted harder than any other major Commonwealth nation, being spread across 3 tech trees and having only 58% of their vehicles in one TT.
Breaking it down by service, the UK TT has the following Canadian equipment;
- 5/11 ground vehicles
- 2/2 aircraft
- 4/4 ships
So really, the issue is with Canadian ground vehicles being spread all over the place. Let’s look at them individually;
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Stuart VI (5th CAD) - Introduced April 2015, 8 months before the addition of the UK TT in the Royal Armour update. I’d class this as a legacy vehicle especially as it’s no longer available, but having a Rank II Stuart would be great for the UK TT and would help solve the “Cruisers as Light Tanks” issue by providing an actual Light Tank.
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M4A5 (AKA. the US Ram II) - Introduced in August 2016, 8 months after Royal Armour. At this point there was presumably not the same system of trees/subtrees, as a Canadian design with Canadian operator would more likely go to the UK TT these days (see Ram I). At least it was eventually copy-pasted over to the UK TT. This vehicle is by all accounts completely ahistorical as the US never tested a Ram II, though footage of the Ram I being tested at Aberdeen is available.
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Skink & Skink (Hell) - Introduced I don’t even know when because the new Wiki doesn’t tell you. I guess actual US AA options for WW2 were so poor that they had to copy-paste the UK TT’s Skink twice? There are plenty of experimental US AA options that could have taken this slot, I think everyone knows this was a lazy decision. Both are Canadian-designed and crewed.
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C2A1 & Leopard 2A4M - Canadian service variants of Leopard 1 and Leopard 2. Let’s be clear that they are variants built to Canadian specification, and not just copy-pastes of standard German vehicles. These are the real high-value items, in particular the 2A4M is a 70 EUR moneymaker. To be clear; the majority of the player base play the “Big 3” nations, so the financial incentive is for Gaijin to add high-value premiums to those tech trees. Just a shame to add a Canadian Leo 2 variant to a tree already massively populated with Leopard 2s, it could have provided a great flavour boost to the UK TT.
In my opinion Canada has been used as a “dump stat” among Commonwealth nations, probably not deliberately but rather neglectfully. From a marketing point of view it makes sense, as while the Canadian market is relatively small (36 mil) but GDP is high (~$55k per capita), marketing these vehicles in the US or German TTs will still give better return on investment as there are simply more players there.
Just a shame to see the potential of the arguably the second Commonwealth country being disregarded.
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With those other nations it’s still really just CANZAC at the end of it, but it seems to be the best way forward at the moment without the whole nation folders thing.
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While I am all for Canada as proper subtree instead of its current implementation, let me ask you, do you find Bhisma copypaste slop or “flavor boost” as you put it?
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More like slop as it is not like the later more unique Cum Blast Cannons of Indian MBTs
Im too looking forward to Penetration Cum Blasting my enemies rear.
Allright but Bhisma is still built to Indian specifications, just as canadian leopards are built to canadian specifications. So it is also unique addition, moreso when compared in playstyle to challengers.
People just dont see this aspect because they dont see it as meta, but they see leopards as meta so of course these would be “unique” additions that add “flavor” to the UK TT; which is my main gripe with this kind of argument.
It is unique compared to others but still not really that needed but the Challengers so botched that a 2A6M CAN would help but maybe as a once-off thing instead of getting things that are so similar that they are basically like C&P
I’ve been using the Indian equipment recently, and found the Bhishma to an extremely competitive brawler with reliable armour. The OSA is also very powerful, and the ability to kill drones is a nice change from Stormer HVM. Is this what high-rank USSR was always like?
I still don’t think the addition of India as a subtree was a good idea, it has far more potential as a standalone tree.
Canada and the ANZACs are a far more logical addition as subtrees without too much deviation from UK playstyle. South Africa is a good add as they have very unique equipment, but the way that it was originally implemented meant that the UK sacrificed a line in the TT and caused the domestic equipment to be very cramped.
Indian has UK origins but progresses into a mix of Soviet and domestic equipment, with good growth potential. I also think that adding India as a standalone faction would be a good marketing opportunity.
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Completly fair assesmnet. Im quite fond of OSA myself, its probably the best long-range AA at its BR
Sure, India would ideally be better off as standalone, but practically id say were powerless to change that - I dont think ive ever seen Gaijin backtrack on subtree placement, so thats the reality we have to deal now.
If playstyle is mostly identical, wouldnt that mean they add little flavor over Bhisma? :P But I get the angle youre coming from.
As I said, Im all for canada being a proper subtree, but lets drop the pretense that want for canadian Leopards isnt tied to them being meta.
This separate tree would probably be best case scenario because it leaves more room in the UK tree while giving the other vehicles more spotlight (plus a bonus of iirc 3 or (4 if gajin want’s a copy paste premium) coastal additions via realms).
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That comes down to who’s asking for them in the UK.
Someone who doesn’t care about Canada’s treatment 100% only cares because they’re meta.
Well, someone who cares would like them as part of Canada getting a home in the UK.
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(how do you do split quotes?)
I don’t have either of the Leopards but I do fight the 2A4M fairly frequently, as it’s a premium there is a lot of… variety in player skill.
Sure, the 2A4M has a good armour kit, good speed, 40° traverse, and a good top round, what’s not to like? Similar to the Vickers Mk 7, it would make a pleasant break from the slow Challenger 2’s with all of their well-known problems.
Would adding one Leopard 2 break the game? No.
Would I buy it? Hell no, but others would.
Does Germany have lots of other Leopard 2 options, and indeed would they have the right to add a German-crew version of the 2A4M, similar to the way the UK TT contains export tanks? Sure.
Similar issue with the M1A1 AIM, which was also used by the USMC. Same with the Class 3(P), but that’s a legacy vehicle as it predates the South African subtree.
All in all I think that Canada deserves a home TT, or at least a tree where most of their stuff is present. At the moment it’s being split between TTs worse than every other Commonwealth nation, possibly one of the worst overall.
As for subtrees no, there is no such thing as the complete removal of vehicles from the game. Similarly to Italy, subtrees can be a precursor for the upgrade to a full TT, though India has few vehicles so is a long way from this happening.
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fair enough.
UK already has enough tanks from several nations. No way.
Despite the fact that they did add a German crewed 2A4M CAN. Germany never used that variant, as far as I know. Hence, the CAN in the name as the add-on amour is part of the “M CAN” (tho you already know this as I go on about it), as iirc Canada is the only user of this upgrade package.
Did they use a 2A4M? Likely after all, it is just thicker floor armour. Either way, Germany has plenty of domestically operated Leos it could have gotten instead.
2A4M has 2A4 armor profile thats currently sitting at 12.0. The wedges on turret are comsetic (well not really cosmetic but in WT terms they are), and the composite screens do nothing for tanks protection. Only objective armor improvement over 2A4 is the additional MEXAS armor on UFP, which still lacks the beak.
Thats completly fair.
I agree with you on this.
They couldve added different Leo 2 variant as new top tier premium. As for keeping 2A4M, im indifferent on that one. I certainly wouldnt mourn its departure from german TT.
That I agree with.
yes, thats annoying and I wouldnt wish that to any nation.
well not complete, but there are certainly vehicles that became unaviable for new purchases after release of their respective TTs.
US Magac 3 premium, UK Strv 81 with SS.11 missiles, UK Shotkal, French Vatour IDF and prolly couple more I missed.
Difference with Italy is that Warthunder at that time was relatively new game with much more limited scope. I dont see this happening currently.
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Duplicate of an existing thread.
Shiuld just get closed down
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