I agree, but without an instant massive injection of vehicles the sub tree folders cannot be independently grindable/playable like @StormRyder13 thinks they should be. For example, lets say this change is implemented next patch. The Indian ground sub-folder will contain, let’s see, and Osa, a Strela, and a Squadron Bhishma. That’s all. That very, very clearly should not be permitted to be an independently grindable tree without progressing through the preluding ranks of the main British tree.
Two things:
- India can clearly get at least a 3 lines tree for both air and ground, so that problem wouldn’t exist for subnations like it.
- If a given nation doesn’t have enough content to make it viable to grind alone, I think it just shouldn’t be grindable alone. Just add a mechanic similar to how ranks unlock currently, but shared among foldered nations, that way you’d need 5/6 vehicles of a rank n among all foldered nations in order to unlock the rank n+1in all foldered nations
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Please read what I have written before typing your response.
Right, but the other cost is adding a wall that Gaijin won’t remove. Now, Gaijin adding the needed all at once is unlikely, and gets worse with each sub-tree, I know that.
Let’s say over the course of a year, they fleshed out one of the trees. Now I can make a ZA-only line-up(with most BRs), but 90% likely, you’d still need to grind out the UK tree just to do it. Let’s make a line-up of 5 vehicles, now instead of 260,000 RP, 5 times it’s 260,000, 10 times. And that’s just for the on BR stuff, not counting all the other ranks in both trees you’d need to go through.
The issue is that adding a wall(needing to grind X to grind Y) will be permanent and will do more harm than good. Ex. Israel.
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True, but that doesn’t exactly contradict what I said. Because I said:
So let’s take India again, the shared pool of vehicles required for unlocking a rank would just make it require vehicles from others foldered nations, and that until it gets enough vehicles to make the Indian subnation sufficient to grind by itself
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That is literally exactly what I have been saying, I am very unsure as to what point you are making here.
I’m not really making a point because I’m not sure what point you guys are even making here
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I think for unlocking ranks of a sub nation, it should follow the same system Gaijin uses for unlocking ranks right now.
Say if you wanted Canada air, which could start at rank II, you would need at least 6 rank I vehicles total in that nation grouping. Or for India, you would need to have the required amount of rank 6 vehicles in the group in order to unlock rank VII in India and all other nations in that group.
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I agree entirely, but I was responding to someone who disagrees with this.
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Who was disagreeing with this?
Technically, it could start at rank I. There are more than a few 1.X suggestions.
My problem was that, how it was explained, was that in order to unlock ZA, Canada, etc. Rank V, even if it has rank I, you’d need UK rank V. And it’ll stay this way even if they get fleshed out to the level of the TT suggestions.
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If a sub tree or foldered tree starts at Rank I but only has 1 or 2 vehicles per rank it still shouldn’t be an independently grindable nation. Not only would it be terrible for gameplay for the player, progressing through each rank just spamming the same vehicle or two over and over and over again, it will be bad for the teammates of the players with the tiny lineups constantly one or two death leaving, and mainly it would be bad for gaijin, because it would provide a massive shortcut to top tier, which is currently the main carrot-on-a-stick that gaijin uses to drive player engagement and sell premium vehicles and premium time (I don’t care at all about this last reason, but it is perhaps the most important seeing as gaijin are regrettably the ones that run this game).
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Right at that point, there is no point in making a sub-tree its own pseudo-tree, and sub-trees might as well stay as is.
Any lock will be permanent. That’s the issue, even if they start small, if they make it to the size of the tech-tree suggestions, the lock will never go away. Now, you need to spend 4x as long grinding just because you need to do so much more.
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The main point is to provide a reasonable way to overcome the arbitrary 5 line limit and create more space for domestic and sub tree additions, so that the multiple nations aren’t choking each other out for room in a single tree. That remains unchanged.
That is an simply an assumption you are making about an implementation for a mechanic that, as far as we know, is not even remotely close to making it to the game.
Let’s say that in the near future Israel gets rank 1-3 introduced, seeing as that was passed to the devs several months ago. Will Gaijin still say that you need to grind to rank 4 US/UK/France to play the Israel tree? Of course not, that requirement will be removed and Israel will become like any other playable nation. The requirement only exists to stop Israel being a mega shortcut to the higher tiers for new players.
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To be honest I’d say while the general UI changes would be introduced at once, the actual shift from current to reworked subtrees might happen one-by-one.
So for example on release they might make a role-model South African tree with some new additions to flesh it out, but leave others as they are until they get their own “promotion” update.
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An assumption based one Gaijin patterns. Gaijin loves making the grind harder it’s a known fact.
It’s also half nation vs rank I tree. Even then we don’t know if they’ll remove it, for all we know they could keep it. But for a tree that starts at rank I from the start, what reason is there to remove the lock? None that’s what.
With it Gaijin can make it so so need to buy a British premium to grind it’s tree then a ZA premium to grind it’s tree. The lock has forced someone to buy two premiums instead of one. Removing the lock will make them less money.
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Poll: Rank Requirements for Foldered Nations Part 2
Recently @FeroxTheFoxDad brought up a concern about rank progression in foldered nations.
Essentially what is meant here is that currently the game has a rank unlock system, leading a player to spend more time in each rank while progressing to top tier, rather than quickly skipping through the bare minimum of a line.
This unlock requirement is usually 5 vehicles per rank or equal to the number of non-foldered vehicles if there is less than 5 in a rank.
With foldered nations these might have significantly less vehicles, especially if this system is introduced for current subtrees that in many cases have only a handful of even no vehicles at some ranks.
Current South African Rank II with only two vehicles.
→ This would mean that these nations without additional mechanics would progress to the highest tiers of their respective trees very quickly, but lack sufficient lineups along the way.
However simply binding all other foldered nations to one “main” nation would bring back one of the issues this rework aims to remove from the current subtree system, the concept of one nation standing above others. It’s meant to be a collaborative, not authoritative.
Now I wanted to go and think of an alternative that gets rid of this problem, but @AydanL44100 was quicker than me and came up with a great solution!
This way the unlock requirement is simply shared between foldered nations. Those with enough vehicles can be played independently, those that don’t can’t (until more vehicles are added). A fair and easy solution to an otherwise complicated topic.
The Poll
How should ranks be unlocked in foldered nations?
- “Main” Nation System
→ Ties the unlock requirements to unlocking the same rank in one decided “main” nation. Ex: Unlocking Rank V in South Africa requires unlocking Rank V for Britain - Shared System
→ Requires a fixed unlock requirement shared among all foldered nations. Ex. Unlocking rank V in South Africa requires 5 Rank IV vehicles from Britain, South Africa or India - None
→ Requires only each individual nations tree, no matter how smal. Ex. Unlocking rank V in South Africa Requires 0-5 South African Rank IV vehicles (depending on how many there are) - Other
→ Please Explain
0
voters
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I agree this sounds sensible. But there are currently 7 sub trees in game, with sub trees for Israel and China on the way, more nations being put into Japan etc, and other nations like Canada and Australia that would also undoubtedly be asking for the space, and the number of vehicles needed to get each tree to the level you are suggesting is easily about half of a fully developed tech tree. Getting content ready for half a tech tree is easily a years worth of effort for gaijin, so with the 7 current sub trees + upcoming subtrees + Can/Aus you are looking at between 10-15 years before each nation has received the necessary attention.
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That’s true, which is also why I’m personally leaning towards additionally implementing shared Rank limits like @AydanL44100 has suggested, which would essentially mean the progression stays largely as fast/slow as it is now, but allows nations to become progressively more self-sustainable with each new vehicle added.
It’s simple but effective
Spoiler
Sorry Aydan for the unnecessary ping, I noticed too late…
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No problem mate I love pings
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