Ambiguous. They confirmed Pakistan has a fixed home in the Chinese tree, so it’s a “subtree” in the sense that “A nation is placed with B nation”, but really not all subtrees are created equal and Pakistan is still stuck in that phase where everything they get is in the premium section.
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I’m a bit sad they didn’t go with this kind of setup, it’s a great suggestion this one, especially for the convenience of adding additional nations to a “folder” where it might need reinforcement. Also it allows for additional larp instead of just the “Look, I have this particular flag up” for those that look at the scoreboard during the match or after the match.
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It looks to me, like too much complications, i would rather all nations to be well represented or have at least their unique vehicles only in their TTs if only possible on given ranks. Instead of folders with TTs i would prefer a slider to move not only up/down on TT but also left/right as choice of vehicles would be increased, obviously it’s not necessary, ranks can be stretched, but if you want sub tech trees to be pure from vehicles from other nations, then slider would be very useful or even necessary. Your idea isn’t bad, but i think current model is more aesthetic.
Your concept surely is good if you want add option of ignoring certain vehicles, so they aren’t necessary to grind.
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Yeah, I try to avoid these complications as much as possible, but sadly there is no one perfect solution for everything.
For example in theory it makes no difference if nations are sorted in tabs or in distinct lines side-by-side in a techtree, the only functional difference is how these are navigated. For the tabs for example this creates clear sections for each nations, but at the cost of not having it all in one window.
Still, I believe this is a simpler and more streamlined solution compared to putting all in one. Currently the techtrees display only five lines at a time, and to increase the available space enough to properly represent subtrees as properly realized nations we would simply need significantly more.
To combat this there is then two main options, both with their own advantages and disadvantages:
Smaller Techtree Icons
(Very rough Example)Essentially by shrinking the icon size, more lines can be shown at a time. The issue with this is that the techtree will be hard to read, especially on lower resolutions, and the effects will only worsen the more space is needed.
While this is a good way to add a handful of lines, I personally don’t believe that will be enough to properly fit multiple nations without cutting corners, which is what I would like to avoid. Instead this can be very well used to flesh out individual nations more, as I don’t think five lines is enough for even one to be fully represented long term.
Side Scrolling Techtree
Essentially instead of just scrolling up and down, the techtree also scrolls to the side. This is the classic solution most commonly brought up and I can see why, in theory this promises infinite space.
This one is actually a good option, for example with adjustable zoom and a hold-and-drag-anywhere navigation this could probably be very usable, and definitely an improvement over the current game. The only point where I believe nation folders beat it are better techtree organization and more substantial national representation, which are to a large part subjective opinions.
But the real problem is that Gaijin have actively stated in the past that they don’t want side-scrolling in their UI. This is why I try to base everything in my suggestion on existing UI aspects as best as I can.
I’m not saying that nation folders are a perfect solution, there is a lot to improve and I’m always looking for feedback on how that could be done, but I think that it is the most convenient way to solve as many existing problems as possible while creating as little new ones as possible.
If you have your own ideas for improvement, or even just specific problems you want to point out, then please do.
Even if it doesn’t always end up in the suggestion, things like alternate UI ideas or even just discussions around the topic can always help me and potentially (if it ever gets passed) Gaijin understand the topic a lot better.
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Even if don’t change tech tree display it always had infinite space, each tier has as much space as necessary to fit all vehicles, some of them are foldered, but even if you had all magaches without folders in one tier then tier display is extended.
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I wish it was like that, but Gaijin did set some limits.
First off we have a limit of five lines in three rows per rank. While each of them can in theory be foldered, not every vehicle can be put in every line and foldered with any other.
This is because there’s the techtree sorting in Light/Medium/Heavy tank lines, TD lines and SPAA lines, the try to keep vehicles of one family somewhat close to each other. Then sometimes there’s finer sorting like for example in the Japanese air techtree where there is dedicated Army and Navy fighter lines, or the USSR air techtree that sorts by manufacturer.
In practice not all vehicles have the space to fit in the techtrees, especially considering the long term effects. Here’s an example based on the British tree:
Ranks 1 and 2 of a player made hypothetical “Ultimate British Air Tree”This techtree tries to include nearly all relevant British vehicles. While keeping within general Gaijin set rules of 5 * 3 per rank and a general sense of organization this requires 9 lines, despite the large amount of vehicles placed in four premium lines.
Space issues like this then are the reason we don’t have proper Indian or South African air techtree lines for example, and instead they have only select singular vehicles, mostly in the premium section. They aren’t treated as equal nations, because this is not possible without taking away from the already limited space of the “host” nation.
More space is needed for all involved nations to expand properly without needing to compete for the available spotlight.
But this doesn’t only affect subtrees. Some individual nations, namely the USA and USSR, have far more options for vehicles all on their own, likely requiring 10+ lines to properly expand. Here this is noticeable in that the techtrees will obviously favor more popular vehicles to fill the available space, which is generally those that are also widely exported.
This means despite hundreds of unique non-exported vehicles and prototypes, a significant portion of their techtrees will be found in other places of the game, leading to the nations feeling less unique.
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You showed me rank 2, which has 10 rows vertically and can have more, so there is no limits in already existing system, lights can be on 2 lines without problem, there was never such limitation saying that vehicles must be separate, south African vehicles also aren’t on 1 line, also are mixed with vehicles of other nations, British TT is made of all its former colonies apart from USA, because USA didn’t exist as colony. Gajing is introducing new vehicles slowly, obviously vehicles from subtts will be often given as event vehicles, BP, premiums… obviously we all know India should be separate TT, so if their vehicles will be only premium then maybe it will be easier to remove them from British TT once gajing will decide to add independent Indian TT. There is no problem with adding all vehicles to existing TTs as there is no limits in space vertically, we don’t need a lot of vehicles in folders, in folders should be copy pastes and slight modifications, apart from situation where br gap must be filled with something and there is no available vehicle apart from copy paste.
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It is not.
Pakistani vehicles are in China. Malaysian Vehicles are in Japan. Israel has it’s own tech tree. Cyprus is now an Israeli subtree.
The only official subtrees of Britain are South Africa and India.
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Don’t forget Canada and Australia being split between the US and UK.
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Love the idea, this solution would be a great both for players and developers.
🔥
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Nope also canada and others countries, there are vehicles from 6-8 nations, one video from WT workers said it, it was video about British records in WT, but thank you for reminding me about some colonies, even though i remember it, i forgot for example Cyprus in context of WT, which to this day is British colony, tiny part.
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This is where the games context is really confusing. Officially Canada is not a subtree, it’s instead split across where Gaijin sees them as needed. That’s why despite being generally a priority for the UK tree, there’s some Canadian vehicles in the US and German tree as well.
Sadly in the actual game there’s no indication what a subtree even is, what nations go where officially, so the only way to tell is official news, QnA’s and statements. There is a list compiling this info though if you’re interested.
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10 rows in the premium section, which has no (known) limit. In the techtrees the limit is 3, which is why a lot of the vehicles in this example are foldered.
This is true, they combined the SA line with the rest of the tree to gain some more usable space.
But I’d consider this as a less than ideal fix, since this still doesn’t bring enough space and, compared to the rework, doesn’t allow the nations to stand on their own if players want it. This was a very important aspect for me, especially for subtrees that were previously highly anticipated full techtrees such as BeNeLux or India.
The rework is intended to keep the advantages of subtrees, but also effectively add the advantages of a full techtree. This way India isn’t confined to the space Britain has left, which isn’t a lot and often forces India into premium or events, and instead can expand fully the same way an Indian tree could, but the two nations can still be used together.
100% agreed, folders should make sense, having vehicles from the same family or just generally relevant connection that the folder name can represent. I don’t like folders that don’t make sense.
Both of them have one Ki-44 followed by a Ki-61. These just make no sense at all.
These are the two initial STA prototypes. Not directly the same vehicle, but competing designs for the same specification. This makes sense.
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I personally think this folder is the worst offender
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Wdym? It makes perfect sense to folder a high altitude interceptor with a dive bomber. Stop being silly
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If we ever get a 3rd or 4th aircraft in this folder, do you reckon it would be another Whirlwind/Brigand or another aircraft with very little in common?
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A spitfire
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The Brigand is my favourite interceptor.
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I’m hoping for something like a Buckingham
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An F-16
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