Subsonics getting EC maps?

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
,
19

image

A jinking A-10 will dodge the gun of a MiG-21 easily. If they fly in a straight line I will kill them but not if they have half a braincell.

If a plane is at a BR where as you said the only
way to kill it is its pilot’s stupidity than its OP. You are knowing using and abusing an OP plane. It would still be very good at its BR if you moved it because AIM-9Ms are still very good at any BR. If your constant full uptier stories are true (they’re not I see A-10Cs in almost every game I play at 11.0) than it would be better to be at 12.3 no? You get full downtiers every game than.

Also I would like to see you flare a 1km rear aspect AIM-9M shot with 15 pops of flares lmao

The last half of your post devolves into weird personal insults because you seemingly are struggling to stick by your point.

1 Like
20

If your constant full uptier stories are true (they’re not I see A-10Cs in almost every game I play at 11.0) than it would be better to be at 12.3 no? You get full downtiers every game than.

That is not how matchmaking of the game works. My matches have been constant uptiers believe it or not. I’m not sure where the black hole is, but it is true.

If a plane is at a BR where as you said the only
way to kill it is its pilot’s stupidity than its OP

Never have I ever said this, not sure where you got this from. A10’s have always been the type of aircratft where if you, as an opponent, do not want to fight it, you don’t have to fight it. If you extend away, there is absolutely nothing it can do to force you to fight.

AIM-9Ms are still very good at any BR

This is strictly just not true.

Also I would like to see you flare a 1km rear aspect AIM-9M shot with 15 pops of flares lmao

Yes, I’ve done it before, it’s hard but not undo-able. However if an A10 gets 1km behind you in the Mig-21, you’ve already done something wrong, that is entirely on pilot error.

The last half of your post devolves into weird personal insults because you seemingly are struggling to stick by your point.

It’s an analysis of the situation and it rules out the amount of pilot error occured within your “graph”. If you take it as a personal insult, there’s nothing much I can say. My point is there, and have reminded you repeatedly about it, you just need to see it.

1 Like
21

Sideways, I’ve just reviewed this entire message board and honestly all the evidence just points to you being unable to use tactics which are tried, tested and highly effective against the A10.
I find it absolutely absurd that you claim that Raze, who has trying to have a constructive discussion at any point insulted you.
If anything, you have totally misconstrued and derailed the entire point of the initial post in the first place. This was never a discussion of changing the A10’s BR, it was highlighting that All subsonic, including the A10 and Su25, should not have to see EC matches where they are forced to spawn on the air field with every other supersonic fighter.
Just because you have a personal gripe over some slight that the A10C has against you shouldn’t totally disrupt a conversation.

With the heavy reduction in base respawn speed and proliferation of premium players using bombs rather then using their aircraft for their intended role has made grinding a strike aircraft a hellscape as is. Having on top of that the possibility of playing EC matches only compounds the problem where many subsonics have to fly in a straight line for 10 minutes to even get to any AI targets, let alone bases, and that’s if they don’t get intercepted by an opportunistic pilot prior to that. Given this along with the many of these strike aircraft, especially the A10 and Su25, were specifically designed to operate from forward airfields or dirt strips close to the front line it would make logical sense that they would either not have to see such large maps like those in EC or have a spawn which would enable them to actually carry out their role rather then solely be an RP piñata for a fighter.

As a side comment on the A10 discussion: While I do agree that the balance of the A10C is off, it is not driven by the aircraft itself, rather the compression of BR’s around it. This is a consistent issue throughout the game, a clear example in GRB being the cold war heavy’s, which dominate in the down tier but are more often then not, cannon fodder in an up tier. Rather then complain about the A10 being to strong, maybe complain about how compressed the 10.0 to 12.0 battle rating is. There is no world were the A10 would be remotely playable against 12.0, it is cannon fodder already in these matches. Reducing the focus of balancing a vehicle purely to the capability of its weapon systems will never lead to a well balanced game.

22

I wouldn’t say the AIM-9M is good at any BR. The amount of complaints I’ve heard and times where the AIM-9M get deflected from a flare or two is a lot even if it’s the best in the game, it’s just not reliable. It sounds like you may need a bit more experience using the AIM-9M to see this, but having seeing A-10Cs, they haven’t really been a problem so far since they arrive pretty late.

As for the diagram, it looks like you dove down a bit too hard making you an easy target enough for even an AIM-9B to hit, having that controlled speed, you could have more time to hit that A-10 or turn a different direction so the A-10 can’t get you. Flying passed an A-10 with engines red hot explains the hit. 1 km with that speed should be enough for the AIM-9M to hit, but if you did flare or flew more to the side, you could of made it a lot harder for that A-10, but this is going by the diagram, unless you have a video to show otherwise, it does show a pilot error.

23

The only 10.3s I can think of that would have any real trouble against A-10C is A-10A and Su-25

Regular basis? I’ve nearly spaded A-10A Late. I could count how many flareless planes I’ve encountered on one hand, and they were all dumb F-1 players who didn’t needa get close in the first place.

Doesn’t matter what tag a plane has in Warthunder. The A-36 is a ground attack plane but everyone uses it as a fighter.

So what? it’s still an IR missile facing radar missiles on a crappy airframe.

That’s just your own skill issue being unable to aim

24

Putting this here since his replies aren’t working

image
image1008×1197 149 KB

2 Likes
25

And let an A-10 run rampant on my AI targets or let the match time run out? That’s not how the game is played.

Again, extend, and come back around from above or anywhere behind the A10. If you boom and zoom them, there is abolutely nothing they can do. I don’t understand how you’re having trouble with this, I can only say it’s due to pilot error which is basically a nicer version of “skill issue”.

Name a BR where AIM-9Ms aren’t good.

It’s not the BR, its how it’s fired, and which aircraft it’s fired from. Just because it’s a 9L with IRCCM and smokeless rocket motor doesn’t mean anything, if you fired it at someone going mach 1.2 while you’re at 600kph yourself, the enemy aircraft will outrun the missile. Again, you’re looking into 1 dominating factor, and ignoring the rest. That is not how balancing works. For example, the F-104A. Carries two 9B’s only. There’s vehicles that carries four 9B’s in 8.3, does this mean the F-104A should go down in BR? No it does not. It’s horrible missile loadout is compensated by its incredible speed, and vulcan cannon. Same principle for the A-10C, horrible speed, does that mean it should go down in BR? No it shouldn’t. Its horrible speed is compensated by the 9Ms and its GAU cannon.

Prove it. With sensor view so I can see if he fired at a flare rather than you.

I don’t have to prove anything.

Screaming skill issue and calling me a spam is an insult and not remotely relevant.

I could instead say pilot error and only playing 1 vehicle which is a premium stated on your service record if that makes it any better. And it is extremely relevant, every example and/or scenario you have stated is purely pilot error. You’ve made a mistake, but you’re refusing to learn from the mistake, instead you want others to get worse, rather yourself getting better. Like I said, it is understandable of the conclusion you have came to since you’re a premium player. You have not played the A10C, nor any of the A10 for that matter… nor any other vehicles than the Mirage F1C honestly. I’ve played every nation, with the A10 Late being my top service record vehicle. I have played it, and I have played against it countless of times, hence why I’ve came to the conclusion of my statements. You get killed due to pilot error and you come complaining, stating that it should be moved up to 12.0…? I’m asking to balance out the aircraft’s playerbase whereas you, again, like I’ve stated in previous replies, are trying to kill the A10C’s playerbase, due to your incompetence of doing a technique that has been tested, and have worked perfectly. Not to mention this wasn’t even the topic nor purpose of this post. Stating what you’ve shown as “skill issue” is entirely appropriate at this stage.

1 Like
26

F-1, F-104J, F-104G(CN), F-4C, F-105D, Su-17M2, actually, about everything. The AIM-9M literally DEFINES a portion of the meta at 10.3, where all of the aircraft are using missiles comparable to AIM-9E or AIM-9J. Half of these aircraft have no CMs, and rockets cannot defeat AIM-9Ms. The rest have no business being almost invalidated by IRCCM death beams creeping ever lower in BR.

It’s an IRCCM missile facing IR missiles that are significantly less potent. Given you have 400 some CMs, radar missiles are a non-issue.

An AIM-9M is not an AIM-9E. Sorry!

1 Like
27

An AIM-9M is not an AIM-9E. Sorry!

I don’t understand how this correlates to anything I’ve stated.

1 Like
28

Didn’t Raze state multiple times how 9Ms fired off A10s have incredibly low velocity and could very easily be outran by after burning jets? This just throws IRCCM out of the question.

1 Like
29

image
image1017×941 141 KB

1 Like
30

image
image1002×843 146 KB

2 Likes
31

wow. struggling against an A-10 in supersonics is just pathetic.

XD that’s just a straight up lie. It’s an Am-9 on a crappy subsonic airframe facing supersonics.

1 Like
32

How to kill subsonic 101
This is just an example, of an effective technique being used.

Please also note the following:
Enemy target in the video is smaller than an A-10
Enemy target is quicker than an A-10
Enemy target has spatial awareness - Actually maneuvered
Cannons used are DEFA’s - Considered extremely low in velocity; basically what your F1C has.

Overall, all evidence just points to you being unable to use an effective tactic. If you missed your shot, it’s not your opponent nor their aircraft to blame, rather yourself. You can’t just constantly miss your shots and come in complaining the vehicle(s) you face are too overpowered. They’re not, you just haven’t gotten a grip of the game yet.

1 Like
33

  1. Those were actually really good shots nice job

  2. The Mirage F1C is more than capable of dealing with A-10s, it’s the flareless planes that I am concerned about.

  3. I do not consistently miss my shots, the example I gave was a very bad one that I created in the 5 minutes in between classes

I have only ever said it is the A-10C, who has MAWS, an obscene amount of CMs, and extremely good missiles that is OP. The only drawback it has is it is slow. I recognize that is a pretty large drawback, but that’s why it should be 12.0. The harrier with the same number of AIM-9Ms and significantly less survivability features is 12.3 because of its speed.

34

No it should not be 12.0, it’s cruise speed barely even reaches mach 0.5 while the Harrier could reach up to mach 0.92 during cruise, not to mention its 700 countermeasures. That’s almost 600kph difference. The 9M’s initial launch velocity being mach 0.9 is considered significantly better than the A10’s. Your statements aren’t as valid mate, you haven’t experienced how it is to play the A-10C, let alone any A-10’s. At best, you can only imagine.

This also further proves why people complain about the A10’s, doing a stupid move like this and expecting it to work, then continues to blame the opponents’s vehicle.

1 Like
35

That proves my point well, the A-10C cannot be killed at its BR if the pilot is sufficiently skilled enough. You have a very advanced RWR so they can’t hit you with radar missiles. The MAWS instantly sends all IR missiles into your flares. The A-10Cs surprisingly good flight performance makes it so you cannot dogfight so there is only 1 possible way to kill it, which is boom and zoom. A competent A-10C pilot can avoid the opponents shots when they are booming and zooming. Those pilots certainly did not know that which is why they were so easy to kill.

The only drawback of the airframe is that it is slow, which isn’t even that much of a drawback seeing as you were able to make it to the battlefield and score multiple kills. If the A-10C had no MAWS and was slow it might be more balanced, it simply just isn’t right now.

36

I don’t think it proves that the A-10C cannot be killed, that F-4 could kill that A-10 easily, but due to how low the aircraft is, it messes with the radar. If you have used radar, it is possible for even a prop plane to mess up a radar missile.

You don’t need to boom and zoom, since you are dealing with missiles at this BR. It is all about turn fighting and hitting the fire button at the right moment. Boom and zoom will allow radar missiles to have a better lock as there is less interference.

They can flank the A-10, but flying in front of an A-10 is suicide as the video shows, if you watch the video, it shows the things people do wrong, doesn’t show how well the IR missile does, it just shows mistakes people do that makes them work.
I did have a battle with not an A-10C but an earlier A-10 and the AIM-9Ls don’t hit sometimes as I’ve seen people outrun them, some even come behind and make it hard to dogfight. So I am with Raze on this as what he said is factual and unbiased.

37

I know what multipathing is, but the A-10C has an extremely advanced RWR which makes it SIGNIFIGANTLY easier to dodge radar missiles than any other planes at its BR. On top of that it has an absurd amount of chaff and due to its low speed it has a huge notch angle.

You are aware that the A-10C has MAWS right? The second it detects a missile it will be flared. The only way to kill a competent player is with guns.

The MAWS goes off, it is flared. This is known because it does not hit him.

The A-10C has 4 AIM-9Ms, that’s a huge improvement to AIM-9Ls.

38

A-10C cannot be killed at its BR if the pilot is sufficiently skilled enough
A competent A-10C pilot can avoid the opponents shots when they are booming and zooming
Those pilots certainly did not know that which is why they were so easy to kill.

This goes for almost every vehicle. You’re also proving my point, if the aircraft is totally based on skill, then the aircraft itself is completely well balanced.

You have a very advanced RWR so they can’t hit you with radar missiles

You shouldn’t need to kill an A10 using radar missiles…? or any missiles? I’ve always killed A10s with guns, not once have I ever had an issue.

The MAWS instantly sends all IR missiles into your flares

Most pilots have this turned off due to the waste of countermeasures, despite having 480.

The only drawback of the airframe is that it is slow, which isn’t even that much of a drawback seeing as you were able to make it to the battlefield and score multiple kills.

We did NOT make it to the battlefield, if you paid attention to the video, you would have noticed we were behind our OWN bombing bases. The enemy aircrafts CAME to us. That is the ONLY potential way for us to get into a fight.

1 Like