Submarines - WT Discussion

Balance mainly. If submarine wants to spam torpedoes, they have to committ to it and accept they’ll be caught out for a bit while their tubes reload. If however a submarine brings a more balanced set of weapons in their tubes (such as a magnetic pistol in tube 1, a passive homing in tube 2, a wire guided active homing in tube 3, and a decoy in tube 4) it does decrease the potential damage they can do but it allows them to be more versatile in how they play. Also, you should have the ability to take a torpedo out and swap it for a different one, and the tubes should draw from a single store of torpedoes. This store would be modified similar to how many of a certain kind of shell you bring.

Y’know what, you’re correct here, I like your idea more than mine, torps with gyros should work like that.

See, I’d need to look it up but I think some of the early passive seeker torpedoes had two modes, a travel mode where it would just get to a point, and then an attack mode whereupon reaching the designated point, it would turn on its seeker, allowing it to manoeuvre to hunt vessels but in some torpedoes, this mode also slowed it down.

There should be no lock reticle for passive seeker torps period.

Agree, although I do think though that you should be able to set a distance traveled, upon which, the torpedo seeker would activate.

I think locking enemy ships through a radar like screen would be awkward but this discussion has inspired an idea for how wire guided torpedoes could work.

Wire guided torpedoes, when launched, would start off with their seeker off. The player can then control the torpedo by pressing a button. This puts the player in a third person view behind the torpedo but this does not activate the torpedo. From here, the player can only move the torpedo left or right, change the distance the torpedo needs to run before the seeker activates, what mode the seeker goes into upon activation (active or passive), what search pattern it goes into upon activation (either going forth in an “s” pattern or simply going round in circles), activate the seeker, cut the wire, and return to the submarine view.

Upon activating the seeker, the player gets full mouse control (or at least control over left, right, up, and down movement) over the torpedo. In the cases of some torpedoes, activating the seeker cuts either the range, speed, or both.

If the wire is cut, or it breaks for whatever reason (vigorous manoeuvres, the tube is being reloaded, the tube has been destroyed) then player loses all control of the torpedo, the camera is forced back into the submarine view, and the torpedo continues to run its course until it activates, it will then search for a target using the pre-selected search pattern until it finds a target and sinks it, or runs out of fuel.

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Well yes but how do you comunicate this to players? They need to know where they are shooting. If they miss, they will think game is broken or they will feel they are missing some setting or something like that. They will become frustrated and wont play it.

This should be tackled the same as missiles on airplanes. Perhaps a weaponry selector?

All I know are these hydrophone seeker where it basically just followed the source of sound in water and then those German LUT and FAT torpedoes that were able to run in patterns. But these were still the “dumb” torpedoes, it just had timer in them that told the gyro to turn.

Then you need to somehow show players that this is locking torpedo and it can lock on friendlies. I know its not realistic but there are some UI and UX principles you need to follow.

Like ATGMS in tank battles, imho…

Perhaps, but apart from in arcade mode, aircraft don’t reload their pylons whereas submarines do reload their tubes, and they can reload different torpedoes into them.

Perhaps if the “cycle selected torpedo tube forwards/backwards” buttons had dedicated space on the hotbar at the bottom?

Again, depends on the torpedo, the British Mk20 E bidder for example had two modes, a target search mode at 15 kts, and then an attack mode at 24 it’s. I’m not exactly sure how it decided to switch from one to the other. Either way, it’s a quirk with some torpedoes that requires more documentation.

I can think of a middle ground, no reticle, but it does show set of timers that denotes the time until torpedo activation, the time until the torpedo impacts, and the time until it runs out of fuel.

You’d be stuck guiding that torpedo for its entire run time, in EC, that can take up to 9 minutes just for the MK IX, things like the tigerfish with 39 KM range would be a pain in the ass to use because you’d spend the entire match guiding one torpedo.

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Sounds like great balance for something that can one one shot smaller ships

This can be easily solved by reloading same torpedo type if you release one. If you are out of that type of torpedoes, it will reload next type.

No need for extra buttons. Just make it work like ships with multiple torpedo launchers work.

Torpedo range and time until torpedo activation is stated in stat card.

You just want to make this into Silent Hunter but it will never work in Warthunder. If you want good submarine game, play UBOAT.

The variations of leander class frigate have limbo mortars (a longer range version of the squid which achieved a ratio of 1 kill to every 2.9 attacks), the mk46 torpedo with a range of 11km, the sting ray torpedo which has the same range, but travels faster & dives deeper, and the ikara anti submarine missile which uses a rocket to launch a torpedo as far away as 19km. The krivak class frigate can fire SS-N-14 Silex missiles that drop torpedoes as far away as 50km. the RBU 6000 rocket propelled depth charges found on many soviet frigates can be fired as far away as 5.5km. The county class destroyer, the one that would logically come after the daring class could carry a wessex helicopter that could carry not only a dipping sonar, but also 4 depth charges or 2 mk44, later mk46 homing torpedoes at the same time.

Small ships are perfectly balanced enough without submarines needing to hold their mouse over their desired target for 10 minutes.

But what if you want to fully load your tubes with a particular type now, and change it later?

Only reason it works on current ships is because they only carry one kind of torpedo. And on ships with two sets of tubes, one behind the other, the automatically selected set of tubes has a nasty habit of flicking from one set to the next & back as you aim.

Torpedo range sure, but torpedo activation can very much be controlled by the launching vessel.

I am not suggesting that you manually have to match the sonar profile or silhouette of a detected ship with those in an identification booklet, I am not suggesting that you manually have to work out the heading of the target, I am not suggesting that you have to manually work out the speed of the target, I am not suggesting that you have to manually input all of these factors into a computer, just to get a lead indication.

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Same as you do in tanks. Too bad…

Then mix rotation launcher control from ships and missile selector from airplanes.

Everyone will set it to 20m and leave it like that. Just set it to 50m for all…

But you are making this too complicated. Like magnetic and impact pistol for example. There is no torpedo failure in game so far, so there is zero difference between them. Torpedo failure adds realism but can also add frustration when you shoot your last torpedo at perfect target and it fails… Sure sub sim guys will say just “hah shit happens” but this is pvp game where players are obsessed with progress and grind.

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For the record, I also think you should be able to unload the shell in your tanks gun breech.

Also, I try very hard not to reply to someone with “tough shit”, put the effort in and actually think of reasons why not.

Perhaps, but it should be able to be done either fully with the keyboard, or fully with the mouse for simplicity’s sake.

How you figure that? If I sighted a target 5 km away headed straight towards me, I’d set a torpedo to run inactive for 3km, so it can activate at the last moment and give the ship very little time to react, it’s like how people fire the r27er, unlock the target, wait for the missile to finish its burn, then re-lock.

Reason I want magnetic pistol is so sub players can have something a little more effective against things like torpedo bulkheads.

I’m not suggesting adding torpedo failure. Adding torpedo failure would make it the only weapon that was deliberately inconsistent. Random failure should never be a mechanic in war thunder.

Some people limit their play time to actually have fun.

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This exactly, would love to see subs added to the game and tech trees for them but needs separate modes for it like you said. I missed out on the submarine event very unfortunately. I have watched YouTube videos of it and it looks awesome. Submarines should have own mode like fleet escort… ships vs subs. Would be fun chasing subs in ships with depth charges

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Would it be like helis where you have a separate mode but you can take them into normal battles?

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You can do all of this in Naval EC already. We are just missing subs…

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I hope yes seperate mode and can’t take them into naval battles. I think it would destroy naval battles to be honest. At leased if there were a trial of it first to see how it works in naval as a separate mode? Would be interesting for sure !!

Did you get to play the submarine event think it was last year? I didn’t unfortunately didn’t know it was on playing COD at the time damn it. Look it up and watch videos on YouTube about it. Looks like hell of fun

I disagree on subs being incompatible with naval battles but trials are absolutely needed.

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Submarine Periscope GIF - Submarine Periscope See - Discover & Share GIFs

CANNOT WAIT!

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Yes I played it and I know it was fun. Still dont see any reason why subamrines need their own gamemode… other than because you missed it and want to play it.

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I would love to sail this beauty

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No, their advantages are instantly balanced by their speed and zero armor. Not to mention you can just zig-zag…

Only thing that wouldnt work is bringing sub chasers like Fletcher into 7.0 game where you will be instantly evaporated by Battleships.

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That’s a point, we’ve talked about what mechanics we’d want but very little about actual submarines we’d want! I’ve got a few lists of submarines that could be put into trees.

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I know right!