Ok, pruning down to 5 lines.
“Small boats” (patrol boats, torpedo boats, & corvettes)
“destroyers” (frigates and destroyers)
“cruisers” (both light and heavy)
“Large ships”(battleships, battlecruisers, dreadnaughts)
“submarines” (self explanatory)
“Carriers” (self explanatory)
I dread to think how full of folders the “small boats” line would be
Could be something that way.
But could also be way to much compressed.
Well, the highest br coastal boat is what… 3.7? The highest br in the game is 7.something. I think it won’t be any more compressed than the other modes if BR’s go all the way to 13, 12, or even 11.0 br
Edit: that said, I highly encourage everyone here to start making mock trees of just the current vessels in game under this sort of br balancing regime because if we don’t know what we want, how would gaijin?
Like UBOAT or Silent Hunter but enemy ships are controled with real players.
Control of a sub need to be simplified tho. Not too much to stay in realistic ibe of Warthunder but not too complicated.
Would a large battle ship have no protection against a submerged vessel in the same way some tanks have no protection against a plane and cause the same resentment?
I dont play naval but I have always loved sub games like silent hunter 3 and might be interested to try navy with subs.
Many of the old sub games did consist of attacking large vessels that had no defence of their own really but relied upon destroyers or dedicated sub hunters to take you out.It would be interesting how Gaijin would represent that. Would they need to not really ?
So, manually selectable torpedo’s but they need to be simple and intuitive to use.
So, a regular torpedo would just follow the direction the tube is facing and the depth the tube is at.
A magnetic pistol could have it’s running depth changed in the MFM and have it’s angle from the bow set in a map mode similar to how artillery works? The map shows your position, the position of enemies according to your sensors, and where you should lead the torp according to your sensors.
Wire guided Torps could do something similar but they go active when the reach the point you designated on the map.
Whatever happens with more advanced tops, they must have there parameters and functions be modifiable in the MFM
You should be able to aim torpedoes similarly as you aim other torpedo tubes on surface vessels, as the direction and stuff was calculated and “programmed” before launch. Turning the entire boat wouldn’t make much sense
Eh, those who can’t accept that not every encounter is a “duel at ten paces” generally aren’t worth listening to. Larger ships can evade torps if they’re paying attention, and if they’re in a position where they can’t, they already got outplayed minutes beforehand (a core element of WT, like energy management and such in Air RB).
I get that, I’m just thinking it might confuse some players in the grounds that the tubes are fixed and don’t swivel.
There’s also something to be said about trying to keep controls at least somewhat consistent as torpedo’s get more capable.
Wire guided torps for the most part consist of two stages that I’ll call asleep and awake. When asleep, the torpedo runs in a certain direction towards a certain point. Once that point is reached the torpedo wakes up and starts using its sensors. Reason why this is important is because some torpedoes change speed when they wake up.
There is no way to know if the development team is working on submarines?
Well quite, but the point of this thread is so that if/when they do start working on submarines, they have some idea in what the players are looking for.
Why? What is the benefit of this in pvp game? If you want simulator where you can select bunch of options, you can play games like that already. This is PVP game and mechanics should be adjusted to it.
No, once you are in periscope, similar UI element that is already on ships with swingable/turnable torpedo tubes will appear. This will mimic gyro steering. Angle will be limited to that which gyro is able to steer.
Acoustic torpedos will use something similar like Infra red lock in air battles except this will lock on sound of propeller. Sure it didnt worked this way IRL, but this is probably most user friendly. Obviously there doesnt need to be visible lock in reticle, and players can just release it and hope it will lock along the way. It should be able to lock on friendlies and destroy them tho so you cant just spam it and farm kills for nothing, otherwise it will be too op. This is how IR missiles work in air battles.
Modern day torpedoes will lock like radar is locking in tank battles.
Here is example I have from suggestion Im working on.
TDC will be automatic. Speed of TDC can be linked to crew skill but definitelly should be linked to era of submarine.
blue water definitely coastal wouldn’t make sense
i think locking the ship might be akward since modern torpedo don’t lock before lauch you will actulally lauch them whoever direction you like with a certain setting then it will activate or guide them if wirered
Balance mainly. If submarine wants to spam torpedoes, they have to committ to it and accept they’ll be caught out for a bit while their tubes reload. If however a submarine brings a more balanced set of weapons in their tubes (such as a magnetic pistol in tube 1, a passive homing in tube 2, a wire guided active homing in tube 3, and a decoy in tube 4) it does decrease the potential damage they can do but it allows them to be more versatile in how they play. Also, you should have the ability to take a torpedo out and swap it for a different one, and the tubes should draw from a single store of torpedoes. This store would be modified similar to how many of a certain kind of shell you bring.
Y’know what, you’re correct here, I like your idea more than mine, torps with gyros should work like that.
See, I’d need to look it up but I think some of the early passive seeker torpedoes had two modes, a travel mode where it would just get to a point, and then an attack mode whereupon reaching the designated point, it would turn on its seeker, allowing it to manoeuvre to hunt vessels but in some torpedoes, this mode also slowed it down.
There should be no lock reticle for passive seeker torps period.
Agree, although I do think though that you should be able to set a distance traveled, upon which, the torpedo seeker would activate.
I think locking enemy ships through a radar like screen would be awkward but this discussion has inspired an idea for how wire guided torpedoes could work.
Wire guided torpedoes, when launched, would start off with their seeker off. The player can then control the torpedo by pressing a button. This puts the player in a third person view behind the torpedo but this does not activate the torpedo. From here, the player can only move the torpedo left or right, change the distance the torpedo needs to run before the seeker activates, what mode the seeker goes into upon activation (active or passive), what search pattern it goes into upon activation (either going forth in an “s” pattern or simply going round in circles), activate the seeker, cut the wire, and return to the submarine view.
Upon activating the seeker, the player gets full mouse control (or at least control over left, right, up, and down movement) over the torpedo. In the cases of some torpedoes, activating the seeker cuts either the range, speed, or both.
If the wire is cut, or it breaks for whatever reason (vigorous manoeuvres, the tube is being reloaded, the tube has been destroyed) then player loses all control of the torpedo, the camera is forced back into the submarine view, and the torpedo continues to run its course until it activates, it will then search for a target using the pre-selected search pattern until it finds a target and sinks it, or runs out of fuel.
Well yes but how do you comunicate this to players? They need to know where they are shooting. If they miss, they will think game is broken or they will feel they are missing some setting or something like that. They will become frustrated and wont play it.
This should be tackled the same as missiles on airplanes. Perhaps a weaponry selector?
All I know are these hydrophone seeker where it basically just followed the source of sound in water and then those German LUT and FAT torpedoes that were able to run in patterns. But these were still the “dumb” torpedoes, it just had timer in them that told the gyro to turn.
Then you need to somehow show players that this is locking torpedo and it can lock on friendlies. I know its not realistic but there are some UI and UX principles you need to follow.
Like ATGMS in tank battles, imho…
Perhaps, but apart from in arcade mode, aircraft don’t reload their pylons whereas submarines do reload their tubes, and they can reload different torpedoes into them.
Perhaps if the “cycle selected torpedo tube forwards/backwards” buttons had dedicated space on the hotbar at the bottom?
Again, depends on the torpedo, the British Mk20 E bidder for example had two modes, a target search mode at 15 kts, and then an attack mode at 24 it’s. I’m not exactly sure how it decided to switch from one to the other. Either way, it’s a quirk with some torpedoes that requires more documentation.
I can think of a middle ground, no reticle, but it does show set of timers that denotes the time until torpedo activation, the time until the torpedo impacts, and the time until it runs out of fuel.
You’d be stuck guiding that torpedo for its entire run time, in EC, that can take up to 9 minutes just for the MK IX, things like the tigerfish with 39 KM range would be a pain in the ass to use because you’d spend the entire match guiding one torpedo.
Sounds like great balance for something that can one one shot smaller ships
This can be easily solved by reloading same torpedo type if you release one. If you are out of that type of torpedoes, it will reload next type.
No need for extra buttons. Just make it work like ships with multiple torpedo launchers work.
Torpedo range and time until torpedo activation is stated in stat card.
You just want to make this into Silent Hunter but it will never work in Warthunder. If you want good submarine game, play UBOAT.
The variations of leander class frigate have limbo mortars (a longer range version of the squid which achieved a ratio of 1 kill to every 2.9 attacks), the mk46 torpedo with a range of 11km, the sting ray torpedo which has the same range, but travels faster & dives deeper, and the ikara anti submarine missile which uses a rocket to launch a torpedo as far away as 19km. The krivak class frigate can fire SS-N-14 Silex missiles that drop torpedoes as far away as 50km. the RBU 6000 rocket propelled depth charges found on many soviet frigates can be fired as far away as 5.5km. The county class destroyer, the one that would logically come after the daring class could carry a wessex helicopter that could carry not only a dipping sonar, but also 4 depth charges or 2 mk44, later mk46 homing torpedoes at the same time.
Small ships are perfectly balanced enough without submarines needing to hold their mouse over their desired target for 10 minutes.
But what if you want to fully load your tubes with a particular type now, and change it later?
Only reason it works on current ships is because they only carry one kind of torpedo. And on ships with two sets of tubes, one behind the other, the automatically selected set of tubes has a nasty habit of flicking from one set to the next & back as you aim.
Torpedo range sure, but torpedo activation can very much be controlled by the launching vessel.
I am not suggesting that you manually have to match the sonar profile or silhouette of a detected ship with those in an identification booklet, I am not suggesting that you manually have to work out the heading of the target, I am not suggesting that you have to manually work out the speed of the target, I am not suggesting that you have to manually input all of these factors into a computer, just to get a lead indication.
