Except for the fact that it has IRCCM which as currently modeled defeats flares wholesale, and that the R-60M can cover for any short range weakness, and even if you needed to account for flares most aircraft don’t have many to waste preempting a launch (especially since Radar based threats are also a concern, or if counts ever get corrected, as the normal ALE /-40 & -29/39 can only carry 20 cartridges in a 1:1 ratio with chaff) and once that coverage stops there will literally be nothing they can do about a missile launch.
It’s better off than the A-7’s that don’t even get All-Aspect missiles, functional ordnance or A2G radar.
There are a number of other aircraft that could / should additionally use an ordnance revision that will probably never occur, due to further compression that would occur (e.g. aircraft (AD-4 / A-1H) as low as ~6.0 could get Cluster Bombs / dispensers (e.g. the CBU-3/A; an SUU-10/A loaded w/ 509 BLU-7A/B Anti-Tank bomblets))
There was no guarantee that advanced Fox-3’s were coming in the next update only that they were planned to turn up soon.
So until then things are still up in the air as to how long that actually conveys but as with most balancing passes that Gaijin make, things simply don’t happen pre-emptively, and that the need for revision would need to show in that stats first, and being a premium, that further limits the Su-39 to needing to wait for another expansion to 12.3 before it could be moved up so actual performance would need to dictate a significant drop, or otherwise statistical emergency (e.g. MiG-23M getting R-60M’s, MiG-29 W/ R-27ER etc.) and as far as i can tell that hasn’t happened yet.
And I dont see how giving it super weapons is going to change any of that. Again, Su-39 is a modified Su-25, a ground attacker. It wasnt meant to turn fight with F-16s.
The issue is that the SU-39 wasn’t only made to engage ground targets but air as well, currently in-game it can’t engage air targets and is forced to abandon its own game mode.
I’m here advocating for the SU-39 to actually be balance instead of unplayable, I main Britain, China, Russia, Italy and Israel and found it much more fun to play other aircraft in those tech trees rather than the horrible SU-39.
“In particular, the Su-39 was supposed to conduct a full-fledged air battle, for which the R-73, R-27 and R-77 missiles were included in its arsenal of air-to-air missiles [with maximum launch ranges of 20/40, 65/80 and 80/110 km respectively” - https://golden.com/wiki/Su-39-EK8AXXN
“A four-fold reduction in thermal signature has been achieved through cooling intakes on the upper surface of aircraft” - Su-39 Frogfoot
and im here advocating for everyone else. So its under-performing in ARB, fine. (again, as a ground attacker, and whether or not it could theoretically take on other jets or not doesnt matter, if gaijin chose to add it as a ground attack aircraft, rather than as air superiority fighter, then thats that. Besides its an early 2000s era jet, most nations are still around 1990. Its literally got about 15-20 years on everything else. that would be unfair to make it historically accurate)
But you arent advocating for balance… balance would be giving it 4x R-60M, or 2x R-27Rs. You want to them to add what would 100% be the best IR missiles in the game or what ARE the best BVR missiles in the game, with no subsequent BR change I assume. That isnt balance, that is making this thing one of the best jets in the game and the most powerful BR11.3 jet ever added. It would dominate every single match, and being premium, everyone would buy it. Veteran or rookie, skilled or noob. Everyone would buy it, every match would be filled with them and it would be boring. It would suck.
If you want a premium jet for ARB, go buy the Mig-23ML. If you want a ground attacker for GRB or ASB, go buy the Su-39. Its that simple.
Lets get a example. Little Timmy just bought his favourite plane (the SU-25TM/SU-39) and wanted to use it to grind out the USSR air instead of the more boring MiG-23ML but suddenly, Little Timmy realises that his plane is utter trash.
What would make, Little Timmy’s experience better?
A) Buff the vehicle for ARB and keep it the same for GRB
B) Do nothing and make, Little Timmy suffer
C) Wait for the next major update and by then it will remain to be obsolete
The answer is A) which is buff the vehicle for ARB and it’s pretty simple to piece it together, if you buff its air capability it will reduce the ground capability (pylons being used up) and if you want you can edit your loadout to focus ground.
Just like we all thought the QN506 was going to be “game breaking” and “deadly” it turned out to be trash and horrible. The same thing happened to the SU-39, everyone thought it would be deadly but turned out to be absolute trash.
You can call me a USSR “coper” even though I play Britain mostly but using the average War Thunder players 2 IQ it shouldn’t be hard to understand that the addition of the R-27ER1 or R-73E wouldn’t be a game changing thing and especially when we are getting the Gripen soon.
Wanna know something crazy? The AIM-7 is currently overperforming which was even confirmed by developers but yeah why not complain about logical players demanding the SU-39 be usable within it’s own gamemode but if that’s too much to ask for I’m not sure what to say.
The application of “its a Ground Attacker” is irrelevant due to it being factually a Multirole Strike Aircraft unlike the SU-25T or SU-25/25K.
Well… The harrier Gr1 was like that for years. It was at BR that was stupidly high and took about 1-2 years of arguing to finally get its BR dropped down to where it is slightly more playable, but it still underperforms. It is still extremely hard to play. so shall we give it Aim-9Ms to make it more powerful?
But HOW can you buff it for ARB but leave it the same for GRB. R-27ER would mean it would go to BR12. No other option, AT ALL. That would nerf it for GRB, that would what, then require to get better AGMs to balance it for that too?
SO Many premiums are crap, or are only good in one area. Heck the Sea-Vixen is currently unplayable because the red tops got nerfed through the floor. Lightning F53 is basically in the same boat.
FGA9 should have CMs and far better missiles, basically it should be what hte Hunter F58 on the german tree is, but again, nope its basically unplayable.
So you have a premium aircraft that doesnt immediately get an ace in every single ARB match, well, tough. stop complaining, You have the Mig-29, best jet in the game, Yak-141, a jet that never existed. one of the best jets in the game. Mig-23ML, Extremely good jet by all accounts, far superior to the F4s it normally fights.
And who gives a crap that they might add the Gripen soon. Im sure the Soviets will get Mig-31 shortly after. and what, Britain is not allowed osmething like the EF Typhoon because it might be better than what the soviets have?
In what way are they supposedly overperforming? There are a number of things that aren’t correct, Sure. But nothing that would make them better than they should be.
Britain lacked a fighter jet that could stand up to the might of the USSR from the 1980s to 2003. This glaring technological disparity inevitably led to significant challenges and hardships for Britain during that period. It wasn’t until the introduction of the Typhoon in 2003 that Britain finally found a formidable solution.
and giving a 2008 jet, 2008 missiles, when we have a 1990s jet, is not going to help. If you want to give the Su-39 these missiles, fine, then I want EF Typhoon with AMRAAM and ASRAAM like you said, 2003 jet. Or I want to see the Tornado F3 outfitted with AMRAAM and ASRAAM, 1996 ish, It would only be fair
I mean I’d expect better from someone who can manage to navigate themselves through this trash new forums. But firstly I’d like to reply to, Morvran.
The Harrier GR.1 was a absolutely busted plane without a doubt and was THE BEST for its battle rating for a very long time and that’s something we can all agree on. The reason for the high battle rating was it simply winning ALL THEIR GAMES but that isn’t the case for the SU-39 as it remained trash when implemented and throughout its existence in-game.
Many premiums are amazing for their battle rating like the Israeli A-4E using laser guided bombs at 7.7 or the SU-25K fighting against 8.3 aircrafts with R-60M’s. Premiums are realistically very good and help research tech trees within weeks if dedicated enough (my friend researched all of air USA in 1 week).
I also have the Hunter FGA.9 and it’s absolutely great now and always was great, the flight performance is unmatchable by 99% of planes in-game in the hands of a experienced player, historically it never had counter-measures and only carried AIM-9E’s so there is nothing you can do about it. Especially with the RWR as only the Swiss Hunters were upgraded with AIM-9P’s and RWR’s/Counter-Measures.
Just because a tech tree has a good aircraft doesn’t mean they should have unplayable aircraft as well, the ignorance is unmeasurable. I get it when a British main plays victim especially when they complain about “bad aircraft” but in reality they’re actually very good.
For example I literally got a bought Talisman on the Phantom FG.1 because I’ve found it pretty fun to play just like my Harrier GR.7 and Harrier GR.3 but make excuses on why other aircraft SHOULDN’T BE ABLE TO PLAY THEIR OWN GAMEMODE LOL that’s just crazy.
I’d like to mention that the MiG-31 is a extremely modern vehicle compared to what we’ve got and would dunk trash on every vehicle we got in-game so that wouldn’t come anytime soon especially since we don’t have the MiG-25. Can I remind you how modern the Gripen is?
And, Tripod I’ll send couple links to the AIM-7 and especially the AIM-7F overperforming so don’t cope please.
You did notice you linked to back to my own bug report on the issue right? and as mentioned in the 2nd report steps to adjust / fix the issue have already been implemented.
Can the radar pod / RWR not slave the missile’s Seeker?
Sure its not to the full capability of the missile’s gimbal but it should provide some off bore capability?
Also some aircraft can manually slave the seeker using a hand controller, but that isn’t implemented as a mechanic yet, I don’t know if the SU-25’s were equipt to do so.
Can the radar pod / RWR not slave the missile’s Seeker?
Sure its not to the full capability of the missile’s gimbal but it should provide some off bore capability?
Very limited off-bore sure but not really true off-bore.
Also some aircraft can manually slave the seeker using a hand controller, but that isn’t implemented as a mechanic yet, I don’t know if the SU-25’s were equipt to do so.
The SU-39 can only do that for ground targets with specific missiles not air to air missiles like the R-73E.
First jet to get IRCM (first kind of ECM we have in game)
First jet to get Ground mapping radar
Has the best AGMs in the game
Has an extremely good collection of loadout options
likely has a very good defensive capability (strong CM count and likely pretty resiliant to damage like the Su-25 is in game)
But it can’t 1v1 an air superiorty fighter and this forum thread has been going on since it was added to the dev server, so before it was even added to the game and you want it buffed to the point where it can what? 1v1 anything in game.
MODERATION
that is what I am advocating for. Dont jump instantly to giving it the best missiles in the game, that is exactly what R-27ET, R-27ER or R-77 would be. The best missiles in the game. Start off slow, fine its underpeforming in ARB, in a single area, then give it 2x more R-60Ms. Still struggling then lets give it 2x R-27Rs. still struggling, lets drop its BR down 0.3. Still struggling, well then lets explore adding R-73s to the game.
It should not instantly skip all those steps and just get what would be an unprecedented buff just because you cant fly a sub-sonic ground attacker in ARB and get easy kills.
That would be like giving the Tornado F3 AMRAAM week 1 because it was struggling when it was first added. It certainly needs it, but I dont see a long forum post demanding that AMRAAM be added to the Torando F3 or else. No, we british players have accepted we’ll have to wait for that buff and make do with what we have. I dont bother with ARB at all at the moment because the toxic furball that is ARB does not suit any british jets we have right now. I prefer mud moving in SB. Im happy with that, Im not complaining about that. But I dont want to be doing that, and then get sniped out of no where, by a premium Su-39 that I had no warning or defence against, that would just suck, it would suck for everyone.
@Morvran Su-39, introduced in 1995, was promoted for export and the construction of a series of five aircraft for the Russian Air Force began in 1997 in Ulan-Ude. However, it was later canceled for financial reasons.
The Su-39 is a ground-attack aircraft capable of carrying missiles such as the R-77, R-27, and R-73. Due to its primary role as a ground-attack aircraft, it may not be directly comparable to the Typhoon, which is often compared to 5th generation fighter jets.
Regarding missile technology, the AMRAAM missile was in use by the late 1990s, while the R-27 missile was introduced approximately 10 years earlier. The R-77 missile, on the other hand, was developed slightly later than the AMRAAM.
I oculd only find references to “8 being delivered to the russian air force by 2008” so that was where that came from. But the point still stands. There is no justification for adding some insanely powerful missiles to the game and slapping them onto a premium aircraft, that by all accounts is not underperforming in its primary role. just because its struggling in its secondary role.
When many aircraft are in the exact same boat, preferential treatment cannot be given to just one jet. If it gets a missile buff. Then so should others. FGR2 and FG1 for example did historically carry Aim-9Ls. that buff is exactly what would be needed to give those jets back some small amount of competitiveness they’ve not had in years. but I doubt we’ll ever see that change, that buff.
So russia finally has an under-performing aircraft. It does not mean it must get buffed to the point of being META. A small buff fine, start off small, but everyone on here advocating for buffing it dont want small incremental buffs, they want MASSIVE, game changing buffs that would see an 11.3 ground attacker armed with missiles that put BR12 air superiority fighters to shame.
Phantom FGR.2 and FG.1 are completely fine don’t downplay them, just because a nation has good vehicles and finally gets a mediocre one doesn’t give it an excuse to be this bad. Clearly you have nothing special to bring to the conversation but ignore our points and use the British tech tree as a example to prevent the addition of these weapons.
First jet to get IRCM (first kind of ECM we have in game)
Doesn’t even work on missiles like the AIM-9G
First jet to get Ground mapping radar
Tracks ground units not a ground mapping radar and only works on moving targets
Has the best AGMs in the game
Yeah no, the best AGMs in game are currently the AGM-65D (when it comes to lethality & numbers)
Has an extremely good collection of loadout options
The loadout can be meh, it’s either you get something and lose another or the other way around
