well yeah always supported the 4 r60m loadout , problem is 90% of this thread never even took this as an option and only demanded superior missles
well yeah but you can make air kills as well in ground, you did 120 matches would need to know how many of those were from ARB and how many GRB, if you would have only played GRB the results would have been way better with higher KD propably as it is supposed to be
as i understoof it the su 25t didnt have the capability at all for the better missles, and a lot other cas survive with only 2 missles as well like already stated, sure they might be aim 9ls but they arent so much better and aim 9ls compared to r27 the r27s are just classes better and shouldnt be used
This would be ok later down the line when a newer Su-25 comes and other nations get an equivalent competing aircraft like the A-10C. However the Su-39 is pretty much the only Su-25 variant that can equip radar guided missiles and it would be a precarious position of being the best Su-25 variant in the game locked behind a paywall. Right now both the Su-25T and Su-39 should get R-73’s only for now.
I mean, you can write reports all day, but it is primarily a premium, they could pull off another F-4J/S pooper when they made the better plane a premium, but they better not do it with this one.
Second, there’s is WAY MORE aircraft that still miss their actual weapons too, and while being much older. And I sure hope they fix those first lol. Idk, flare pods on Yak-38M, AIM-9M/AGM-65/ATFLIR on A-7E, things like AIM-9Ls for F-4K/M and so on, those are just a couple examples.
Regarding the Su-39 tho, I’d rather take a late 25TM tech tree model with those weapon options to actually make people play the actual tech tree vehicles, so that they actually learn the game ( insert meme about overwhelming newer players) and that they keep the variety that they oh so love ( like, top tier with 90% premium crappers really is diverse isn’t it lol)
Survive is a strong, also worth noting that a lot of attackers have equivalent flight performance and missles at a lower BR or have similar air to air loudouts but better flight prefromance (either faster, more maneuverable, or even both at the same BR) this leaves the Su-39 dead in the water in air RB, and while yes it is very competitive in ground RB, if we can help make it somewhat more competitive in air RB we should as this is a game at the end of the day and we should strive for overall balance.
To be honest. It should not be competitive (assuming competitve means that you can go toe to toe with something else in a 1v1 encounter) in ARB. If it was. It meant it had overwhelmingly powerful AAMs. It should be able to get a kill or 2 with a lot of skill and effort, sure. But competitive no, its a ground attacker, it shouldn’t be able to go toe to toe with air superiority fighters and the devs have already confirmed and stated that much. The last thing we want is another A-10 getting 2 A2A kills with 0 effort again.
Well I’m sorry but many other vehicles are subject to that restriction as well.
Just because it is an aircraft doesn’t mean it MUST be able to perform well in an A-A role. ask the actual pilots. They wouldn’t take this thing out to fight other jets. They aren’t retarded. If they are going to fight jets they will use a fighter.
Just because you got a premium jet doesn’t entitle you or anyone else (myself included) to bag two free kills against other TT CAS that barely has any all aspect fox 2’s or manoeuvrability OR an IRCCM.
simple advice from a fellow player, use the jet to its advantages. you are not made for speed, so go off a bit further from the furball and attack from the side. you’ll see a sudden bump up in survivability.
I am by no means a hater of russian vehicles, (i love em tbh) but crying about a premium performing subpar while you play it AGAINST its strengths is… hypocritical to say the least.
If that is a hard requirement, then i want some massive AAM buffs for a lot of jets
Well I’m sorry but many other vehicles are subject to that restriction as well.
Just because it is an aircraft doesn’t mean it MUST be able to perform well in an A-A role. ask the actual pilots.
Yeah I’m sorry but firstly this is a video game there is no translation into real life in general, and to mention did you not read my message or something? Especially on the part were I mentioned the SU-39 being a multirole aircraft? It’s like removing the F-16As ability to engage enemy aircraft because Gaijin “feels like it”.
simple advice from a fellow player, use the jet to its advantages. you are not made for speed, so go off a bit further from the furball and attack from the side. you’ll see a sudden bump up in survivability.
There is no advantage on the SU-39 compared to gets like the MiG-27 a jet on the same battle rating bracket with the exact same capability but better overall.
Except IRCM that makes it immune to rear aspect IR missiles
I got a entire document of me dying to PL-5Bs or AIM-9G from the rear, sorry but the IRCM literally does jack sh**.
9Ls are totally blocked in both rear and partial side aspect. Ive encountered a few su39s in the gr1 and know this is fact. If this is wrong, then please can you send over documentation so that i can submit a bug report
They’ve buffed the AIM-9L and other missiles in general (or that’s how it feels). Couple days ago I was playing my Tornado F.3 and had to dump literally 200 flares, 0 throttle and do a hard turn to avoid a simple AIM-9L.
Not my experience with 9Ls
And the seeker csnt even lock onto an su39 in rear aspect unless using seam, and that just alerts the su39 and does nothing aid the 9L. All my kills against the su39 have been with the cannon and sneaking up on them in sb
yes they can hit one from the rear once one is realy close, or if one still is stupid enough to only fly a straight line and not dodge the missles, it isnt supposed to make you invincible but strengthens your dodging manovers
Oh you said it well, it is a video game and for this game the purpose of the aircraft is pure striker capabilities and isnt currently supposed to be a multirole aircraft, just accept the fact it is a game like you said lol, played yourself with that one
They have, the precedent exists simply look at either F-16A-15ADF.
Do you legitimately think for a single second that the -15ADF could not actually carry A2G ordnance, or that the fact that it doesn’t have any was done for no reason by Gaijin, the same way it doesn’t have the AIM-120 (yet).
Also I’m still waiting for the GPU-5/A to be added among various other ordnance options (AN/AVG-8B & AIM-95, AGM-119A, AGM-45 /-78 etc.)each of which have already been reported or are pre-written waiting for their mechanics to be implemented.
Now I fully admit I am against the Su-39 getting major AAM upgrade because I have genuine concerns about it becoming to strong, we have already seen the consequences of a top tier jet getting AAMs that are too strong in the form of the R-27ER on the Mig-29 and Yak-141. An issue that will plague top tier until such time other nations catch up, hopefully with the addition of AMRAAM providing the Mig-29 isnt just instantly given the R-77
Now Before I begin, I admit, its probably under-performing in ARB, a lot of ground attackers are, does it need a buff at all? Well that’s a seperate conversation all together, but for THIS post specifically, im going to assume yes, but rather argue WHAT upgrade it could get.
Primers
1) First things first. We have to all agree, it is a ground attacker. I for one hate the idea of an aircraft being added for GRB. A number of British aircraft suck at the moment within a lot of content, so I do genuinely sympathise.
"Right now its too soon to provide any meaningful statement on its performance. The aircraft is indeed doing satisfactory in ground RB. Naturally attackers are going to be weaker in some cases in Aviation modes.
If / when we have some more news on the topic, we will for sure share it." - Smin
Now regardless of it’s IRL “role” that is what its for in–game and by all accounts, that is what its used for IRL. So it shouldnt and likely wont ever be a strong pick in ARB. The question is though, by what degree. I think it only needs to be on-par with the Gr1 and other IDS version of the Tornado, and that is at best, marginally stronger.
2) Its a more modern aircraft than a lot of other jets in-game. I’d say for a lot of nations we are around 1990-1995, but the Su-39 by all accounts is a early 2000s-2010 era jet. This means IRL it could get a lot more advanced AAMs, but just because it could doesnt mean it should in game. If it does, then I vote Gr7 gets its ASRAAMs, or at least its Historically accurate AGM-65s
3) Its premium. This makes it hard to balance with BR changes, and a lot of people will just buy it, making it common, My concerns would be greatly reduced if it was a tech tree jet and not premium
With that out of the way, the choices that I think are not completely insane
Viable options
1) Increase R-60M count from 2 to 4. Personally I think this is a missing loadout bug and not balancing issue. If you have information/sources for this being an actual loadout option, then submit a bug report
2) R-27T - It might not have actually ever carried these, but I think thats more because why would they equip a jet with R-27Ts when it could in its time take an R-73. These would give the Su-39 longer range IR missiles, and not necessarily be too strong. They’d be my choice for a first upgrade
3) R-27R - I have big concerns about adding BVRs onto a PREMIUM CAS jet. I’ve outlined this above before, but its mostly down to the Su-39 being pitted against BR 10 ish jets in GRB that might have no CMs, in ARB, they “might” be okay, but it could also be a big mistake, and so this decision must be made with caution. I think a small BR increase would be required too.
4) R-73 - In the future, sure. But with the current state of the game. No. Quite frankly. I think the Tornado IDS is in the same boat as the Su-39 in ARB. Every single argument you’ve made for the Su-39 could be copy and pasted over to the Tornado IDS and change R-73 for Aim-9M. But I’d make the same argument against it that I do here now. The game isnt ready. Many jets lack the necessary defence. Tornado Gr1 has HALF its accurate number of CMs. I’d be very much concerned about R-73/Aim-9M being too strong for the current game. Regardless of airframe. We have also seen many issues with how the game handles IR seekers. 9L is not performing well at the moment and I think they need to work on that before adding the next gen of IR AAM. My concern here is that the R-73 will either be immune to flares or instantly defeated by flares. In either case, its not a good choice.
Nor do I think it would be fair to add such an IR missile to a premium jet, that by all accounts is doing very well in GRB, but not give it to a jet like the IDS that is not in most gamemodes.
Other options such as R-27ER and R-77 should not be considered. Neither missile would be evenly remotely balanced.
ANY addition needs to be carefully considered and debated. Maybe im being selflish, but I fly the Tornado Gr1 mostly in ASB, and its not an easy jet to complete sorties in. The last thing I want to deal with, is another Top tier jet that is overtuned. Its hard enough to evade the Mig-29s. With the Su-39 being a premium, its very very common
MiG-23 has large calibre flares.
Wasn’t my experience when I died to a PL-5B whilst flaring and my IRCM facing the missile but I guess you could call it luck on the J-8Fs side.