No it wouldn’t, that’s the point we’re trying to make is that while yes it is a very capable ground attacker, it is utterly terrible at even defending itself in air to air combat even tho IRL it had the tools too do so. Keep in minde it still has very poor flight performance when compaired to other jets at its BR and giving it something like two R-27’s would help level the playing field, not make it OP.
I think you forgot that even if it magically went to 11.7 it can still remain within rank 7, and a example of this is the Ka-50.
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The IRCM doesn’t even work against missiles seen at 9.7 like the AIM-9G let alone 12.0 worthy IR missiles. The IRCM is more of a passive-passive thing which requires the input of both flares and IRCM in combination but alone the thing is utterly useless.
You choose a realy bad comparison, the Ka-50 was a mistake as a premium if anything else, it is a p2w vehicle that gets spammed like crazy because it is so strong.
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Ok…It still proves the point that it’s possible so I’m not sure how your argument negates that. if the Su-39 were to receive a buff, first fi all it could probably stay right were it was at 11.3 since it’s already doing so terrible, second even if adding R-27’s did cause it’s performance to shoot up too high, it could just be moved too 11.7 and still remain a premium.
u didnt realy listen, the whole point is that premium currently shouldnt be 11.7, the possibility of this happening is the problem, it is not healthy for the game, and propably would screw up ARB even more, the Su 39 would basicaly never see a downtier anymore, 11,3 and 11,0 already is very rare to get downtiers, you would buy yourself completly to top tier and newbs will do it, you will destroy the whole ARB for those that have it on the team just like the su 25k is very bad for their teams and mostly leads to loses,
Like this it stays a Strike Aircraft for GRB and is healthy for the game!!!
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It was an example of its BR not the vehicle itself, I wasn’t comparing them as a whole but how 11.0 vehicles can still remain 1 bracket lower than it actually should. Even if the SU-39 magically was 11.7 with the R-73E or R-27ER1 it could still remain at its tier.
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Again u dont read, the KA 50 is the worst example, 11,7 is to high it is the exeption because it is to strong, it is a miscalculation on gajins part that this ever happend. And only russia would have 11,7 premiums then, this is not normal but a simple mistake, they just didnt bother ranking up the KA 50 to rank 8 because it would look bad!
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Your not listening to us, your insisting on a lack of flexibility the devs have show there willing to exercise if needed but you insist it’s not possible even tho it is. First of all just beacuse it’s a strike plane dosnt mean it should suffer, and there are plenty of strike planes in game that also do well in air RB so your logic is flawed and unhealthy for the game. Also pls understand the Su-39 was built to also fight air targets if needed so there’s no reason it shouldn’t be capable too do so since atleast adding R-27’s too the plane shouldn’t make it OP even at 11.3 as you said it almost always sees uptiers.
Again you just come off as someone who wants to force this plane to suffer for arbitrary reasons that would make this game worse to play if applied to everything. Also the Su-25K didn’t ruin the game at its br any more than any other strike plane, and actually does pretty alright, so ime not sure why you singled it out as an example.
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I give up on you , you dont see the light of the day anymore typical russian main. It doesnt matter what it can do in real life it is a balancing decision so stop taking this as your point.
And funny you say the Su25k wasnt a problem, u only show your ignorance, opposite to the Su 39 ,the Su25k was a menace in ARB because of its all aspects missles in potentialy 8.7 matches
I wont reply further to you, since you clearly have no clue
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Lmao you won’t reply to me further cus you dont have an actual argument. My entire point is that the place is unbalanced and suffers in air RB at its current BR. Thaings is it’s not even that hard to balance the Su-39, you just insist it needs to be held back for reasons that arnt applicable to the game and have never been. You clearly don’t understand how balance is supposed to work in war thunder and probably shouldn’t be making such authoritative remarks considering that
It’s funny too cuz you call me a Russian main even tho I play plenty of US as well. Maybe if you stop applying you silly mentality the Strike planes have to suffer in air RB and actually played the Su-39 or Su-25T you’d realize it’s a miserable experience and make the plane useless at actually doing its job of grinding the air tree.
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All the Su-39 players on here saying it needs better missiles because it cant survive at 11.3. Meanwhile the Harrier Gr7 is at 11.7. Considering the fact that the Su-39 has better AGMs, Im waiting for the Su-39 to be raised to 11.7 next BR changes. Im surprised it started so low. Its BR will be 100% decided by GRB and anyone trying to fight in ARB with it, should just accept the fact that they are a meatshield for the rest of their team
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Atleast the harrier has good acceleration and flight performance, thrust vectoring, and 4 good IR missles, and in ground RB it gets a thermal targeting pod and 4 10km fire and forget TV guided missles which is ideal for targeting SPAA.
Even then I’d still be open too the idea that the Harrier could go down too 11.3 but let’s be real here, the harrier at 11.7 is still pretty good in ground while also still being useful in Air RB too, or atleast alot better off than the Su-39, so even then the Su-39 could still receive air to air missles like R-73’s or R-27’s that wouldn’t break the game, and it also wouldn’t make the plane more OP in ground RB while giving it a chance to fight and stay competitive in air RB so it actually useful too the team and can actually be used to grind.
The fact that people are insisting this plane deserves to get shafted simply because it’s an attacker is a terrible mentality for game balance, and also ignores the simple truth that this plane was built to be multi role, hints why it could carry more missles IRL. Keep in minde I’m not asking for R-77’s as I don’t think the game is ready for those, but simply that it be given R-27’s so it can actually keep up with other planes at its BR.
Also your wating for the Su-39 to go up in BR? What world are you living in that makes the Su-39 OP? Even in ground RB it’s easy to deal with if your a competent AA player as the planes a bit of a brick especially with full loadout, and like you even admit, it’s just a worthless meat shield in air RB. I’m proposing these buffs too the plane so it can stay at its current BR, because if anything else it’s gonna go down due to its terrible prefromance in air RB.
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The point is… is that it IS a ground attacker. Its designed for 1 thing. Its not an air superiority fighter. It will always struggle in ARB, if it ever doesnt, then it needs to go up in BR. Su-25, Su-39, A-10, heck even to a certain degree, the Harrier Gr7. These jets were not added for the Air to Air capabilities. They were added for their CAS abilty in GRB. If you want to fly them in ARB, then you will struggle. Its that simple. Giving it extremely strong missiles wont change much, you’ll piss off anyone fighting against, but still get instantly shot down, in fact maybe faster, as you will be considered a high priority threat.
Until such time we get seperate BRs for ARB and GRB. CAS aircraft will continue to have a hard time in ARB. My suggestion, if you dont want to use it in GRB (and I dont blame you there) go play air SB. You’ll have a lot more freedom to perform CAS, and its not a constant furball.
If you still want to advocate for giving the Su-39 missiles it doesnt need. Then I vote we give the Harrier Gr7 Aim-9M, it historically carried them, and would give a sub-sonic 11.7 jet with no radar or BVR missiles, more A2A power and help balance the matches
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Screw that, add the GR.9 / AV-8B+ as a premium to the Britain, US & Italy and and watch them choke on
AIM-9X, AMRAAMs, Late model Mavericks / Brimstone’s , JDAM, APKWS II, AGM-122, CBU- 97 / -105, various Countermeasure pods and more.
Imagine adding that all at 11.7.
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Oh yeah, that would be good. We already have the wrong targetting pod and AGMs on the Gr7 for “balancing reasons” and they have just admitted they’ve artificially capped the range on what we’ve got for balancing reasons. So Yeah, i’d take Gr9 with all that entails (which I am expecting to be a prem). would also take the Tornado Gr4 with Brimstones too.
Also dont forget the Gr7 had some pretty advance MAWS/ECM systems too, if the Su-39 gets something like that, so should the Gr7
The point is that it was specifically built to be a multi role plane and given the ability to fire air to air missles such as the R-77(which I agree the game isn’t ready for) and the R-27(a much more competitive missles for the BR given the plane shortcoming in flight prefromance) so your argument about it’s intended role is invalid as you don’t even appreciate that the plane was built to be able to preform the air to air role and only acknowledge it’s air to ground role, also the second big point is that this is a VIDEO GAME and specifically not DCS at that, not everything that’s a strike plane needs to suffer, and the vast majority of strike planes already in game are alot more competitive in air RB than the Su-39 is. The Su-25K is actually a decent plane at 10.0 as it has mid flight prefromance but great missles and countermeasures making it an overall enjoyable plane.
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I’m a keyboard only kinda guy and simply put Sim inst my jam, I’d like to be able to enjoy all planes in air RB and shouldn’t have to switch game modes to make my vehicle even remotely profitable. I actually have fun using my Su-39 in ground RB, I finde it a very good CAS plane despite some of its shortcomings in flight prefromance and lack of thermals, but in Air RB it’s and absolute dud, with no real ability to do anything other than snag a dumb pilot in a head on. Hints why I suggested R-27’s as it would give it increased lethality in Air RB and make it somewhat competitive, but it could stay at the same BR so it still faces top tier SPAA.
Wow, maybe your finally understanding where I’m coming from then? Yessss!!! Let’s balance other attackers while we’re at it! Let’s lower the BR of the A7’s, let lower the early Su-17’s, and help out other overtired or under preforming strike jets while we’re at it!
The Harrier GR.7 was pretty good when it first came out, and all thaings considered is still a decent vehicle, but it definitely feels a bit long in the tooth in Air RB with only 4 Aim-9L’s so I think it should either go down in BR or like you suggested get some Aim-9M’s.
I hate how in the community everyone comes off as jaded that they feel there nation is held back so therefore other people should suffer like they did, it’s a terrible and childish mentality and just hurts everyone. Two wrongs don’t make a right guys
I also hate the argument that “this is a strike plane therefore it’s ok if it’s borderline unusable at its own BR in air RB” for multiple reasons. first is that this isn’t a hardcore sim, and typically we want to balance planes so that there viable in both air and Ground RB and viable to use in either game mode. Second, which is very relevant for tech tree vehicles, how am I supposed to grind a plane that isn’t even competitive in air RB? If you’ve ever taken a plane out in Ground RB(which takes some effort to begin with to make sure that’s even possible) you’ll notice that you make very little income for your plane. By having strike planes that suffer in air, it encourages people to have to resort to GE to get the modules the want in order for their plane to even be useful in Ground RB. And finally, the argument dosnt even make since for the Su-39 as IRL the whole point of the plane was that it was multi role and could also take on enemy fighters, so by this logic you should still be ok with it atleast reviving some of its radar guided missles…
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I remember Grom teasing this premium and hyping it up, and when it was announced everyone whined thinking it was gonna be OP, and then people like me were disappointed when we realized the Su-39 was going to be locked behind a paywall and then had all of it cool weapons choices withheld without any comments if it will ever receive them in the future. Now that the update has been out for a bit I only see them at all in Ground RB and very rarely do I see them in air RB, not that they last long, so yeah I have to wounder if it just did really poorly and wounder what if anything will happen too it done the road.
@Smin1080p are the devs aware or concerned about the current state of the Su-39/Su-25T in air RB? As currently it seems to suffer heavily.
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