Its an -ER, with the R-27T’s seeker. So for all intents and purposes a very long range R-60M with IRCCM. there would additionally be no need to use the radar so the defending RWR would be completely useless.
In short it would be absolutely busted in comparison as an ambush weapon. Especially if the attacked airframe can’t constantly deploy flares to prevent the track in the first place.
Thank you, so yeah, that would be a hard no then. That would be insane. as an ASB main. That would be extremely annoying to encounter
So only option, that wouldn’t either A) Totally break the game, or B) result in an immediate massive BR increase.
Would be R-73s (after CM overhaul) or R-27Rs. That’s it. Anything else would be just be rediculous
The issue here is that the R-27ET has much shorter range than the R-27ER making it a less viable BVR missile than the R-27ER. At long range using ambush tactics it may be very good yes but in all other scenarios it can be flared by an aware player.
The issue here is that we’ll be getting vehicles like the Gripen next update with the features of Fox 3 so it’s either we wait till September and allow the SU-39 to get destroyed and be unplayable for weeks or actually make it useable and give it the R-27ER1/ET1 or the R-73E.
I think you’ve forgotten what vehicle we are talking about, the SU-39 a vehicle which can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t outrun other aircraft, can’t make aircraft overshoot and is just free food in literally every scenario.
@Morvran I understand the issue. You are primarily concerned with Britain, and it appears that you are not concerned about anything else apart from your cherished main tech tree. As the main of (US, DE, RU), I am not the type of person who favors a particular plane or nation and seeks to unbalance them. Instead, my goal is to alleviate the suffering of planes and prevent any further imbalances.
With how buggy the spotting system is, it might be impossible to see coming in ARB and personally, I only play SB. It would 100% be impossibe to see this coming. Also, not all jets have lots of flares to spam. Gr1 only has 28 flares currently.
Join the club. Tornado F3 has been like that since day 1. Sea Harrier FRS1 still has place holder parts and that was added nearly a year ago.
It would have to go to BR12, and that would likely ruin it for anyone trying to use it in GRB
Maybe. Just maybe
And I dont see how giving it super weapons is going to change any of that. Again, Su-39 is a modified Su-25, a ground attacker. It wasnt meant to turn fight with F-16s.
Heck, Tornado F3 is much the same, it techncially all those things when fighting Mig-29
Im fine with fixes coming in, just soviets have for a long time been top tier. They get everything handed to them on a silver platter. My concern is that giving a premium jet, the best missiles in the game, would be unfair on everyone else. especially when you consider that some nations, like britain, have NO viable top tier premium jets at the moment, the F4 we’ve got is apparently crap, and a lot worse than the FGR2 in the tech tree at a lower BR
Except for the fact that it has IRCCM which as currently modeled defeats flares wholesale, and that the R-60M can cover for any short range weakness, and even if you needed to account for flares most aircraft don’t have many to waste preempting a launch (especially since Radar based threats are also a concern, or if counts ever get corrected, as the normal ALE /-40 & -29/39 can only carry 20 cartridges in a 1:1 ratio with chaff) and once that coverage stops there will literally be nothing they can do about a missile launch.
It’s better off than the A-7’s that don’t even get All-Aspect missiles, functional ordnance or A2G radar.
There are a number of other aircraft that could / should additionally use an ordnance revision that will probably never occur, due to further compression that would occur (e.g. aircraft (AD-4 / A-1H) as low as ~6.0 could get Cluster Bombs / dispensers (e.g. the CBU-3/A; an SUU-10/A loaded w/ 509 BLU-7A/B Anti-Tank bomblets))
There was no guarantee that advanced Fox-3’s were coming in the next update only that they were planned to turn up soon.
So until then things are still up in the air as to how long that actually conveys but as with most balancing passes that Gaijin make, things simply don’t happen pre-emptively, and that the need for revision would need to show in that stats first, and being a premium, that further limits the Su-39 to needing to wait for another expansion to 12.3 before it could be moved up so actual performance would need to dictate a significant drop, or otherwise statistical emergency (e.g. MiG-23M getting R-60M’s, MiG-29 W/ R-27ER etc.) and as far as i can tell that hasn’t happened yet.
And I dont see how giving it super weapons is going to change any of that. Again, Su-39 is a modified Su-25, a ground attacker. It wasnt meant to turn fight with F-16s.
The issue is that the SU-39 wasn’t only made to engage ground targets but air as well, currently in-game it can’t engage air targets and is forced to abandon its own game mode.
I’m here advocating for the SU-39 to actually be balance instead of unplayable, I main Britain, China, Russia, Italy and Israel and found it much more fun to play other aircraft in those tech trees rather than the horrible SU-39.
For example the SU-39 could carry up to 4x R-60M’s or 4x R-73E’s but in-game it can only carry the mere 2x R-60M’s (4x R-27R/T/ER/ET or 4x RVV-AE - Sukhoi Su-39 / Суxoй Су-39 : Sukhoi or 4x R-60M - Su-39 Frogfoot (Su-25TM) Attack aircraft - RedStar)
“In particular, the Su-39 was supposed to conduct a full-fledged air battle, for which the R-73, R-27 and R-77 missiles were included in its arsenal of air-to-air missiles [with maximum launch ranges of 20/40, 65/80 and 80/110 km respectively” - https://golden.com/wiki/Su-39-EK8AXXN
“A four-fold reduction in thermal signature has been achieved through cooling intakes on the upper surface of aircraft” - Su-39 Frogfoot
and im here advocating for everyone else. So its under-performing in ARB, fine. (again, as a ground attacker, and whether or not it could theoretically take on other jets or not doesnt matter, if gaijin chose to add it as a ground attack aircraft, rather than as air superiority fighter, then thats that. Besides its an early 2000s era jet, most nations are still around 1990. Its literally got about 15-20 years on everything else. that would be unfair to make it historically accurate)
But you arent advocating for balance… balance would be giving it 4x R-60M, or 2x R-27Rs. You want to them to add what would 100% be the best IR missiles in the game or what ARE the best BVR missiles in the game, with no subsequent BR change I assume. That isnt balance, that is making this thing one of the best jets in the game and the most powerful BR11.3 jet ever added. It would dominate every single match, and being premium, everyone would buy it. Veteran or rookie, skilled or noob. Everyone would buy it, every match would be filled with them and it would be boring. It would suck.
If you want a premium jet for ARB, go buy the Mig-23ML. If you want a ground attacker for GRB or ASB, go buy the Su-39. Its that simple.
Lets get a example. Little Timmy just bought his favourite plane (the SU-25TM/SU-39) and wanted to use it to grind out the USSR air instead of the more boring MiG-23ML but suddenly, Little Timmy realises that his plane is utter trash.
What would make, Little Timmy’s experience better?
A) Buff the vehicle for ARB and keep it the same for GRB
B) Do nothing and make, Little Timmy suffer
C) Wait for the next major update and by then it will remain to be obsolete
The answer is A) which is buff the vehicle for ARB and it’s pretty simple to piece it together, if you buff its air capability it will reduce the ground capability (pylons being used up) and if you want you can edit your loadout to focus ground.
Just like we all thought the QN506 was going to be “game breaking” and “deadly” it turned out to be trash and horrible. The same thing happened to the SU-39, everyone thought it would be deadly but turned out to be absolute trash.
You can call me a USSR “coper” even though I play Britain mostly but using the average War Thunder players 2 IQ it shouldn’t be hard to understand that the addition of the R-27ER1 or R-73E wouldn’t be a game changing thing and especially when we are getting the Gripen soon.
Wanna know something crazy? The AIM-7 is currently overperforming which was even confirmed by developers but yeah why not complain about logical players demanding the SU-39 be usable within it’s own gamemode but if that’s too much to ask for I’m not sure what to say.
The application of “its a Ground Attacker” is irrelevant due to it being factually a Multirole Strike Aircraft unlike the SU-25T or SU-25/25K.
Well… The harrier Gr1 was like that for years. It was at BR that was stupidly high and took about 1-2 years of arguing to finally get its BR dropped down to where it is slightly more playable, but it still underperforms. It is still extremely hard to play. so shall we give it Aim-9Ms to make it more powerful?
But HOW can you buff it for ARB but leave it the same for GRB. R-27ER would mean it would go to BR12. No other option, AT ALL. That would nerf it for GRB, that would what, then require to get better AGMs to balance it for that too?
SO Many premiums are crap, or are only good in one area. Heck the Sea-Vixen is currently unplayable because the red tops got nerfed through the floor. Lightning F53 is basically in the same boat.
FGA9 should have CMs and far better missiles, basically it should be what hte Hunter F58 on the german tree is, but again, nope its basically unplayable.
So you have a premium aircraft that doesnt immediately get an ace in every single ARB match, well, tough. stop complaining, You have the Mig-29, best jet in the game, Yak-141, a jet that never existed. one of the best jets in the game. Mig-23ML, Extremely good jet by all accounts, far superior to the F4s it normally fights.
And who gives a crap that they might add the Gripen soon. Im sure the Soviets will get Mig-31 shortly after. and what, Britain is not allowed osmething like the EF Typhoon because it might be better than what the soviets have?
In what way are they supposedly overperforming? There are a number of things that aren’t correct, Sure. But nothing that would make them better than they should be.
Source, please.
Its also been confirmed by the tech mods that the AIm-9L is underperforming massively and need an overhaul to fix. But you dont mention that
Britain lacked a fighter jet that could stand up to the might of the USSR from the 1980s to 2003. This glaring technological disparity inevitably led to significant challenges and hardships for Britain during that period. It wasn’t until the introduction of the Typhoon in 2003 that Britain finally found a formidable solution.
You chose wrong nation to have fun.
and giving a 2008 jet, 2008 missiles, when we have a 1990s jet, is not going to help. If you want to give the Su-39 these missiles, fine, then I want EF Typhoon with AMRAAM and ASRAAM like you said, 2003 jet. Or I want to see the Tornado F3 outfitted with AMRAAM and ASRAAM, 1996 ish, It would only be fair
I mean I’d expect better from someone who can manage to navigate themselves through this trash new forums. But firstly I’d like to reply to, Morvran.
The Harrier GR.1 was a absolutely busted plane without a doubt and was THE BEST for its battle rating for a very long time and that’s something we can all agree on. The reason for the high battle rating was it simply winning ALL THEIR GAMES but that isn’t the case for the SU-39 as it remained trash when implemented and throughout its existence in-game.
Many premiums are amazing for their battle rating like the Israeli A-4E using laser guided bombs at 7.7 or the SU-25K fighting against 8.3 aircrafts with R-60M’s. Premiums are realistically very good and help research tech trees within weeks if dedicated enough (my friend researched all of air USA in 1 week).
I also have the Hunter FGA.9 and it’s absolutely great now and always was great, the flight performance is unmatchable by 99% of planes in-game in the hands of a experienced player, historically it never had counter-measures and only carried AIM-9E’s so there is nothing you can do about it. Especially with the RWR as only the Swiss Hunters were upgraded with AIM-9P’s and RWR’s/Counter-Measures.
Just because a tech tree has a good aircraft doesn’t mean they should have unplayable aircraft as well, the ignorance is unmeasurable. I get it when a British main plays victim especially when they complain about “bad aircraft” but in reality they’re actually very good.
For example I literally got a bought Talisman on the Phantom FG.1 because I’ve found it pretty fun to play just like my Harrier GR.7 and Harrier GR.3 but make excuses on why other aircraft SHOULDN’T BE ABLE TO PLAY THEIR OWN GAMEMODE LOL that’s just crazy.
I’d like to mention that the MiG-31 is a extremely modern vehicle compared to what we’ve got and would dunk trash on every vehicle we got in-game so that wouldn’t come anytime soon especially since we don’t have the MiG-25. Can I remind you how modern the Gripen is?
And, Tripod I’ll send couple links to the AIM-7 and especially the AIM-7F overperforming so don’t cope please.
Source:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/RfdZe2n1F4OA
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/T6R96CAqqwsg
Let’s say next quarter dev consider add R-73E on Su-39, there’s no need R-27R1
But if don’t want R-73E, Su-39 should get R-72R1, at least shouldn’t be higher than 11.7
The thing people were going crazy over was the off-bore capability of the R-73E which the SU-39 can’t utilize, you have to get nose on first.
The R-27R1 is a option yeah but that would mean the SU-39 could carry 4x R-27R1 & 2x R-60M.
You did notice you linked to back to my own bug report on the issue right? and as mentioned in the 2nd report steps to adjust / fix the issue have already been implemented.