its a 2008 jet by all accounts. Fine, lets give it everything you want, but lets give Britain EF Typhoons with AMRAAM and ASRAAM, because historically by 2008 thats what we had. Its only fair.
Thats a poor argument. There are so many jets that suck right now at 11.3 and quite frankly I consider dead meat, that could and should 100% get missile upgrades. but none of them will ever see such uppgrades. FGR2 for example, had Aim-9Ls, its stuck with Aim-9Gs and will likely never ever get that upgrade
Its a ground attack aircraft, that is what an Su-25, which is what the Su-39 is a modified version of was designed to do, provide close air support. It was NEVER designed to charge into NATO lines and take on (considering its a 2008 ish jet) EF Typhoons, F-16, F-15s, F-22, Etc, Etc. Defend itself, sure, but only where its escorts failed.
The issue I have, is that the missiles you advocating for might have been historically carried by the Su-39, but its again, an early 2000s jet. Many of those missiles it carried are 10, 20 maybe even 30 years more advanced than any other nation. We have seen time and time again, soviet jets being completely and utterly overtuned. Yak-141 and Mig-29 Carrying R-27ERs for example is a classic case of this. They should NEVER have recieved that missile and the results speak for themselves. The Mig-29 is by far the best A2A jet in the game, and nothing really comes close, especially in a BVR fight. and Im fed up with it again ONLY being soviets that get anything good these days.
Im a britain main, and even our latest jets, barely compete and are such a shadow of what they should be IRL, that its actually kinda insulting.
Tornado Gr1 for example:
Missing, Sky Shadow ECM Pods
Should have 56x Flares, and 1200x Chaff, currently has 56 total CMs
Should have Aim-9L/i or Aim-9M
Should have Ground mapping radar
Should have ALARM
Should have ASMs
Should have advanced bombing aids
By all accounts, the Su-39 is a fine jet. It has the best AGMs in the game, it has IRCM (first of any jet), it has ground mapping radar (first of any jet). It has so many interesting loadouts and equipment, it by all accounts, looks like a solid jet in almost anything, EXCEPT, ARB. If I played soviets and bought this jet, I’d have fun with it in SB. So instead of complaining about what you dont have, enjoy what you do have. Trust me, from someone who plays the most neglected nation in the game right now, a nation that is boarderline unplayable at most BRs due to nerfs, missing features and other… issues. It could be a LOT worse.
(Heck, the Sea Harrier FRS1 added 9 months ago, still has placeholder radar and cockpit and its not likely going to be until maybe July, but I suspect more likely September update that those will be finally fixed)
Again, it has a BR in RB based upon its CAS power, in GRB, and of course its too high in ARB, the same as the Tornado Gr1 and same as the Harrier Gr7. Same as many, many aircraft in this game.
3 Likes
@Morvran Personal I think dev no add AIM-9M or AIM-9L/i sidewinder, ALARM early long range anti-radiation missile and carrying 2x BOZ-107 pod (so 56 flares & 1,200 chaff total) on Tornado GR.1 in tech tree until consider Tornado GR.4
But at least Tornado GR.1 might get Sky Shadow ECM Pod & Ground mapping radar
I think the CM issue is more game limitations and in another thread, I did see what could be interpretted as hints to a CM overhaul ( which is really needed) but the rest of it I do agree. I suspect we will have to wait till Gr4.
Since this plane is capable of carrying better air to air armament, it should be given something a bit more capable, 11.3 seems to be a bit high with only two R-60M.
It’s price tag almost isn’t even justifiable with its current performance.
1 Like
Look man, I get that there are other strike jets and even nations as a whole that get the shaft, I’m not denying that or justifying that either, but like I said two wrongs don’t make a right, so that isn’t an argument I wanna hear. I’m trying to argue in good faith here but I keep going in circles because a lot of y’all who are against the Su-39 getting a buff for air combat seem to insist that the plane deserves to suffer for some pointless reason or another that doesn’t make any sense for war thunder, or you try and bring up how other jets suffer, and I’d say if you really feel like those jets suffer then why don’t you go make a post about them instead of making poor arguments on here about why the Su-39 also needs to suffer. Giving the Su-39 missles that will help make it competitive at 11.3 air RB isn’t going to change the way it plays in ground RB and will improve it’s experience in air RB. This is such a simple request and has happened with so many other planes so pls don’t bring some whataboutism into this thread to justify it’s unnecessary suffering in air RB, at this point it sounds like your position is that you want it too be as hard as possible for stile plane players to enjoy their airplanes in air RB for some reason that has no bearing on how war thunder works and I’m getting tired of arguing in circles over the same faulty points y’all keep making to hold this plane back.
2 Likes
Tbh I’ll I want are some somewhat better missles for the Su-39 to give it a bit more of an edge in air to air combat, Im not asking for it too be made OP, just something simple perhaps like R-27R’s so it has the ability to reach out and touch some jets if it needs too(still screwed in a dogfight)
2 Likes
Tbh I’ll I want are some somewhat better missles for the Su-39 to give it a bit more of an edge in air to air combat, Im not asking for it too be made OP, just something simple perhaps like R-27R’s so it has the ability to reach out and touch some jets if it needs too(still screwed in a dogfight)
Huh? Edge in air to air combat? Its a Strike jet, lol. Fly CAS missions with it. When you’re up to air combat, use a fighter jet. When you wan’t to dive, use a submarine. If you like space flight, spawn the USS Enterprise and if you wan’t ground combat, spawn a tank.
1 Like
Typical Russian main they always ask for more even they got are more than enough.
expect strike aircraft to able to fight fighters? heh tons of ground loadout and IRCM still not enough?
well seem they need first spawn nuclear weapons.
3 Likes
Please listen to yourself, just because it’s a ground attacker even though it was made with the idea of diversity and compatibility with many air to air missiles doesn’t mean it should be utter sh** in air realistic ITS OWN GAMEMODE. Many content creators provide information on vehicles like premiums so you can decide to purchase it or not but many LITERALLY couldn’t since it was unplayable.
Are we going to forget that the SU-39 was more of a multirole than a core air support and anti ground? But yeah lets ignore that and make trash excuses on why it should be sh**.
1 Like
Yeah, its the first jet added to the soviet tree in a long time that isnt OP in every ganemode and they are just bitching about it.
1 Like
I’ll write a lengthy paragraph for those who are incapable of simple research. The SU-39 was a development of the SU-25 aircraft which we all know and love, the idea of the SU-25T originally was for anti-tank roles but later in the coming years the SU-25TM program came into light.
The SU-25TM was based on the SU-25T which was also based off the SU-25 trainer variants replacing the co-pilot with more enhanced avionics making it capable of doing night operations unlike the original SU-25s.
As the SU-25TM program continued it was predesignated the SU-39 and was given the capability to carry the Kopyo Radar under the fuselage replacing the Mercury Pod or the FLIR Pod if needed. This also came with other additions like the R-27ER1/R-27ET1, R-73E and the RVV-AE.
Why was it given these types of ordinance? Simple, and this is because (now the Russian Federation) wanted to give the SU-39 the ability to engage air targets instead of it’s mere R-73E being used as a “defensive weapon”.
The issue in War Thunder besides the blatant inability to engage aircraft is the issue of NOT BEING ABLE TO PLAY YOUR OWN GAMEMODE which is something people are still magically confused about even though they’ve played the game for many years now.
All vehicles shouldn’t be forced to play other game modes due to how dog sh** it is. The “its a Attacker though” excuse doesn’t really apply to the SU-39 due to it being made with the idea of diversity, compatibility and lethality to all vehicles it engages.
Don’t compare the SU-39 to any type of aircraft and this is simply because there is no counterpart to it
3 Likes
These missiles are all completely OP and are currently ruining the game for everone else as there are no comparison for any other nation. Even at Br12, i do not believe the R-27ER is high enough. If the Su-39. One of the best if not the best ground attacker in the game… THAT IS ALSO PREMIUM AND THUS CAN JUST BE BOUGHT AND FLOWN. Gets the best missiles in the game. Then it would, out necessity have to move up in BR. Because R27ERs at 10.3-11.3 would just be stupid. It would instantly transform the Su-39 into the best aircraft in the game period. For every single gamemode. Soviets have had that. Without fail, for years.
You talk about aircraft not being flyable in their own gamemode of ARB. Well then, i hate to ruin if for you. But thats easily 50% of the british tree right there. Accept it. Not all planes are meant to dogfight. Some, were added purely for CAS for GRB. A-10, Su-25, Su-39, and many others would never have been added without GRB being a thing
1 Like
R-27ER1’s wouldn’t break anything, I don’t think I’d be seeing SU-39’s engaging M1A2’s with air to air missiles? It’s either they lower the BR slightly or they give it the R-73E’s or R-27ER1’s.
I’d literally screen share 20 matches of both air realistic and ground realistic for you if you believe this vehicle is “truly good” but I doubt you’ll take my offer.
And if you actually believe the SU-39 is one of the best vehicles already then what should we do? Stay static and do sh** or actually resolve the issue like you cry babies did over the economy.
And lastly I got the entire British ground and air and I’ll tell you this, I’ve had so much fun playing Britain its ridiculous, the Harrier GR.7 is my favourite vehicles alongside the SU-25’s and Challenger 2’s and the Challys are absolute beasts in my opinion.
1 Like
Its the only british jet at the moment that isnt beint totally rofl stomped in every gamemode. The Tornados are too little too late and arent really playable
THIS IS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING!!!
Giving it R-27ER or R-73 or whatever WOULD result in a BR increase. It would have too. You are forgetting downtier. These missiles would be rediculous at 10.3.
Instead. Advocate for seperating the BRs for aircraft in GRB and ARB. That way it CAN be lower in ARB without being a total menace it GRB.
This wouod benefit so many jets. GR7 would likely end up qt 10.7/11 in ARB instead of its current rating of 11.7
The issue here is that WE KNOW that Ground and Air BR’s can’t be separated and would take a along time to be implemented so we can’t rely on that, we can’t also lower the BR and we know that War Thunder mentioned that they’ve got the right to implement the R-73E whenever they want without notice so that’s the most likely option.
The SU-39 could go to 11.7 and I don’t have a issue with that and can still easily remain a rank 7. A example of this is the Ka-50 being 11.0 and a tier 6 only (instead of tier 7).
R-73s we would have to see, I have heard rumours of a CM overhaul, which would very much be needed to balance that addition (and for the record, I do beleive it is also needed pre-adding of things like Aim-9Ms) My concern there, is that not all jets have a decent compliment of CMs, even at higher tier, like the Tornado Gr1 and this would prevent the Su-39 just sniping with IR missiles. (Looks at the A-10 with Aim-9Ls in 9.3-10.3 matches)
It also cannot be added to things like the Mig-29, which is my other major concern. “Well if the Su-39 now has R-73s well then the Mig-29 also historically carried them”
R-27ERs, no, just no, these missiles are insane at the moment. It would have to be at BR12, and no one would accept that. So no, R-77 not yet, maybe in the future, but not for a long while for the same reason. Bare in mind, the Su-39 IS one of the most modern jets we have in game right now. Just let other nations catch up a bit first.
The only other option, is the R-27Rs. Which I really doubt will be the hail mary you think it would be. 2x BVR missiles on a subsonic, isnt going to magically transform it, but would guarantee it would never drop in BR in the future.
Im just warning you, that adding more powerful missiles, would likely result in shooting yourself in the foot with a BR increase and you’d be back at square 1. As you’ve said, BRs cant be seperated yet. So if you make it stronger in ARB, you could end up making it weaker in GRB.
We gunna forget that the Python 3 is a literal counter to the early R-73’s? It has inbuilt cameras and other things to ignore flares but lets not mention that right?
R-27ER’s and R-27ET’s were the only R-27 series of missiles carried on it so adding the R-27R would be a a-historical thing. If the R-27ER’s are actually that “crazy” maybe the addition of the shorter range IR R-27ET’s could be a better addition.
The R-73E’s is a must without any debate if we aren’t going to get the R-27’s so really it’s one or the other.
Not the first time. Harrier Gr7 NEVER carried AGM-65Ds. That was a a-historical addition for the purpose of balance. (confirmed by Gaijin) It carried far more modern AGMs than that.
R-27ETs, Im not that familiar with Russian missiles. but… The biggest issue with the R-27ERs is there speed, range, G-pull and tracking mode combo. They are extremely hard to dodge and it is impossible to joust.
So it would depend on specs
Heck, they have just artificially capped the range of ALL AGMs, to about 10km (via capping the lock on range) for the purpose of balancing. Even the Su-39. We should all be mad about that