SU-30 Premium BR issue

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
101

Real and complete one definitely is though.

You also need to tell me how much better/worse you need to be than something else in order to move up/down in BR, where’s the cutoff ?

Comparing things without knowing their true value is impossible to do objectively.
What’s better, R-73 or 9M and by how much ? You might say that it depends.
What’s heavier, a 50x50cm brick of steel or a 50x50cm brick of wool any by how much ? In this one you won’t need to say depends as those things already have their objective weighs done.

Until the former is reduced to the latter’s standard you’ll never have true balancing and you’ll need to improvise with opinions that are subjective at the end of the day and as such, not optimal.

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There can’t be a fully objective decision because how you weigh a pro and con is ultimately subjective.

Which is true though you’re still dismissing it’s effectiveness against CE rounds, it’s coverage, and it’s spall liner.

You’re acting as if relikt is a small improvement from k5, it’s not. It has nearly double the amount of KE protection so to give analogy:

500mm and a 600mm pen dart down at 3.0

is comparing apples to oranges and inaccurate. A tank that heavily relies on flanking or atgms, can take probably take out a bhishma but it will have much more difficulty doing the same against a T-90M hull.

Again, you’re trying to rationalize the BR of the bmpt by trying to inaccurately portray the T90Ms hull as functionally identical to the Bishma while also trying ignoring the crewless turret.

There is and it’s to show how much a crew less turret makes a difference in a BR despite having a weaker cannon. than most 10.7s and even some 10.3s. It’s to show that the BMPT isn’t the first to use a crewless turret.

This is something you dodge consistently.

Anyone who has played them will tell you otherwise. It’s a hold W and left click simulator.

How often do you defeat bmpts with crew knockout than ammo racks? I’m going based off of me and my friends playing in the BMPT and going against it. Not sure why you’d think i’d lie here?

It’s not because you’re not accounting for stock grind, and the percentage of experienced and inexperienced players.

think you’re mixing between gospel and a belief I’m willing to defend. For someone who tried to convince people the Bishma and T90M’s hull the same because of the BR, I’m sure I’ll be fine here lol.

It was considering people were buying it at full price.

A bad rep that lead to what? The BMPT wasn’t the main concern of the drama, it was the slop and lack of new content and gameplay.

Like I said before, it’s a constant tug and pull.

And their current system in place is better how? It’s much better to get thing that may very well make mistakes but not to the extend of the current implementation.

Which won’t happen because it’ll cut into their profit. It’s not because it’ll take time. it’s more profitable to keep the average player/buyer satisfied and to convince other potential buyers to buy them.

And the release of the F-14a wasn’t because of money? They totally didn’t know what would happen if they added a single nation with fox 3 missiles…

This is what they’ve always done with the most anticipated vehicles, either add something to top tier with an overpowered mechanic , or add something that’s below it’s BR.

If you want to think the BMPT at 10.3 was a mistake, fine, but waiting a month to bring it to 11.3 and waiting an additional 3 months to bring it to 11.7 wasn’t.

Something tells me you think Gaijin’s leadership is just a bunch of headless chicken and somehow you convinced yourself that the same mistake they seem to be repeating a lot , is just poor judgement.

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I dunno I feel like the F16s, J10, JF17 and the fat bus known as the grippyE all need further nerfs

Kfir also needs to go to 14.3 as it still has a KD over 1. Still work to do for the flankers playground

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It can, but you’re just choosing to go with the willy-nilly approach.

I already acknowledged it’s spall liners that have limited use for shots going through it’s LFP or driver’s port. CE protection is there as well, but I don’t know how important it actually is at 10.3.

I already said it has a better effective hull than Bhishma.

You think AGS is up there mostly because of it’s crewless turret ?

Not saying that you’re lying, just that personal opinions and feelings don’t really need to align with reality.

Sorry mate but high tier premiums perform as good as their copies in the TT.

BMPT happened way before the community decided to moan publicly about slop.

So you’re trying to replace a flawed system with another flawed system.

You’re also just speculating it’d perform better.

Yes because it’s really hard to do and will take them loads of hours to do so.

I don’t follow Air much so can’t really comment.

I think it was moved up to 10.7 in a weeks time before it got up to 11.3. Considering the heavy holiday season, I’d say they tackled it decently for a corporation.

I think they’re incompetent in many things, which includes balancing highly unique vehicles before release.

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Compression is hurting worse than ever since the Heavy Calvary update, however patience is Virtue here. Hopefully in due time changes will be made. In the past two years the major changes in graphics, sound and new concepts has been extremely welcoming and BIG. In Engineering every factor takes time and development to finalize, while proceeding to future goals all at once.

Decompression will come, and it will be Good.
12.0-12.7 was a fantastic bracket, the pause is good to emplore different nations, vehicles and BRs, or just practice. But for now, 12.0 - 12.7 is a current no-go zone for alot of enthusiasts.

R6S had Operation Health, maybe, just maybe. We’ll have something similar.

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106

Given that Gaijins solution was to move the F-15s down, rather than moving the Su-30 up, and thus making the compression worse (in what I refer to as the great compression…)

Ive lost any faith in gaijins ability to actually balance anything and any potential desire they have to actually fix the game, because at the end of the day, the current compression is extremely beneficial to 2x Premium vehicles

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107

Heads up, I run exclusively Arcade Air/Ground. The skill and squadrons based dynamic and long matches of realistic makes me want to slam my head into a door frame. Granted I still thorougly enjoy realistic and community, I am neither champion grade or a social butterfly. We always hurt the ones we love.

Aware that I’m on a very slippery mud and algae coated incline;

You’ll need higher ranks but you have to be careful too. You don’t want stretchmarks.

F15A had been awkward in both BRs. It has been either a group project threat as it kinda should be, ish. Or just eh as an opponent. Same feeling for the users. Right now it’s just the season of the SU, last it was definitely the F15As. But the compression right now is brutal. Granting every dog has their day and all. I’ve barely touched the F14D. Again, I’m not going to Realistic Battles. Don’t you put that evil on me Ricky Bobby. I also refuse to spawn camp for Arcade Battles. You shouldn’t have done that. He just a boy. Seeing a squadron camp your spawn for a stream in Arcade makes my skin crawl. Never be the problem. The poor bombers never had a chance.

I’m praying these are growing pains. There’s also going to be many more additions in the future in these higher brackets which will definitely give them material to work with further if you’ve noticed how chunky some BRs have gotten.

Decompression would be welcome in SuperProp BRs too. In 5.7 - 6.3 You used to risk encountering SU11s while using the F8F-1B. Getting licked by a Mig21 isn’t all that great in 7.7 to 9.3 either.

The damage that can be done if I force the AV8A down to a 8.3 lobby is horrific also. I’m sure with higher BR ceilings and +/-0.7 vs 1.0 spread would serve wonders. There’s excessive amounts of vehicles to be added, and I’m not against copy paste within some level of accuracy in terms of who’s actually fielded these vehicles. We will be seeing basically F35s vs Su57s almost exclusively in some brackets soon. Its just the Eras. We should all be here for it. Until then, expect to revisit this thread as Su57 vs F15EX unfair, even then decompression will be a huge recurring topic.

Model builders buy premiums too. And they’re cheaper than a Tamiya kit. This is The Hobby. This is The Way. We invest. They produce. And it’s beautiful. Don’t freak when the YF23 is a premium. Tims Variety had a solid proposal of 5$ per BR. But really, 80$ needs to be it. Or increase GE/Premium per pack, most premiums are bought that way and it grants you’re own discretion to maximize value if you have just slightly more flexibility.

Not too many premiums outright beat out the competition, but the F4S… so this isnt new stuff. Also, F4S could pull some weight in 12.7 AAB before. That radar doesn’t play. Don’t stand in front of it. Don’t even turn it on until your clear the runway. F14D definitely has the same radar compliment but notice its not game breaking like the F4S was/is. Also, just make an F4S turn?. So it hasn’t ever been “game breaking”. It took 7 minutes to dogfight a J7E in an F4E after he peeled away my F4S and F4J awhile back. Only the F4E had the best rate turn because of the internal cannon and I blew a blood vessel in my eye wrestling it down and getting it to fall out of the sky. To think they sent those Phantoms out without a gun… also, F4C is just… sad. But I get it. The J7E player has made me pay for my sins dearly every match since so that’s understandable. He’s solid.

I’m just a USAFs Radar and Electronics O4s obsessive grandson looking for some footprints from the 40’s and 50’s in terms of engineering history with this game. I’m Barely an enthusiast compared to a huge portion of the community. I’ll write on the group paper but by no means am I standing any ground above observations and spitballing to see what sticks. My scope of reference is restricted heavily. I took a huge break for college and work so when i came back online in 2021 and I was blown away by the changes since 2014 - 2017. Used to look like a PS1 game for real. Sega Genesis TwinCobra was peak.

There’s also gaps for some nations too that are like open wounds. That means viable combat platforms, not just low or high quantity in or near a BR. But more utility based vs competitve combative platforms forcing the majority of vehicles in a BR up to meet it. Given time that will get rounded out too. Someones favorite Attacker or Light vehicle shouldn’t force them into a new era of threats. The Super Hellcat or T92 could afford to maybe not see an M60 in a dark alley. King tigers sure. All day. But that’s the purpose and era. I never want an opponent that can’t do anything but struggle.

I also don’t want anyone to fight a brawler like a SU30, TWS and an iffy radar vs an F15A nearly having to elbow a SU30 down just in terms of range of SARH capabilities and still having options for defense.

Wait for F35/F22Y/F23 and ECCM utility. We might be getting ready to launch a whole new Territory as a whole within a years time. And this pattern absolutely will repeat.

As long as we’re reasonable they’ll listen. Otherwise they couldn’t succeed, but it’s alright to ask for help. Maybe they’ll throw us a bone soon. We just need to continue discussing it and it’s current effects. Satifaction is the most important metric. Otherwise no volume, no profit, no resources. Then that’s on us.

I don’t remember an online game looking at almost 20 years of activity. I’m weathering this storm, but we do need to analyze every factor and angle we can. If they stick their necks out and regret it that just hurts. everyone.

Our goal is just Decompression, it’s up to them to make the offsets needed. But this is MASSIVE decompression this time. There’s serious risk that needs closed environments for testing with slim sample sizes at varying capabilities to form a predicatable battle models. They do play their own game. Trust that. And feedback now is very important. Just keep it as clean as you can. Resist the doorframe.

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We’re All In Pain, Baby! -help us-

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One type of plane has a huge advantage, while the other type of plane has not. To think that 12.3s can fight Su-30s reminds me that not a single person that works at gaijin has any form of intelligence.
If I ever feel bad, or do something stupid I just think about the people who manage this game and how absolutely inept most of them are, lmao.

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110

To be fair, you’re using an aircraft that can also be considered undertiered

doesn’t change how utterly stupid the Su-30’s br is though

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Oh I am the last person that would complain about the Su-33 being at a high br.
It’s just that the best 13.0s with no Fox-3s will almost always loose to Fox-3 carriers if the pilots are equally skilled. Fox-3s give you a HUGE advantage over people who don’t have them and have to maintain lock. Which makes planes like the Su-30s very strong since they get top tier Fox-3 missiles to pressure + another big load of IR or SARH missiles maintain the pressure even after they launched all their Fox-3s.

It’s just plainly unfair.

112

Not always, Fox-3 =/= win.
It still depends a lot on what missiles are used and what vehicles are used.

Both F-2A and Su-27 for example have no right losing to an F-14 or F-5 with Fox-3s

F-2 vs Su-30MK2/MKK though… the Su-30 wins in the majority of scenarios

I’m not trying to disagree with you, just pointing out a flaw in your argument

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113

I thought that goes without saying. Though, regarding engagements, fox-3 carriers just have the upper hand. If they play it right. A plane with SARH missiles will not be able to hold the lock.

114

Some people unfortunately need that explained to them

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115

LFP yes, but drivers port’s weakness is a lot smaller than a regular T-series tank. It doesn’t help that it’s turret is crewless.

Then why bring up the Bhishma?

Again what you’re doing is trying to rationalize it’s 10.3 BR by using the Bhishma’s hull. It just doesn’t make sense

Yes but its just my inference. A vehicle with greater firepower and armor is the IPM1 but it has worse speed/acceleration (doesn’t mean it’s slow like a T90) and more importantly, lacks a crewless turret.

It’s a small turret which makes it harder to hit and it can stay hull down while being protected from ammo racks or crew knockouts.

the point of me bringing in the AGS is to show that crewless turrets isn’t a new concept. It’s existed in the game for quite a while.

And we know how? Do we know the breakdown of players? how much of a does stock grind affect stats?

The Aim and clickbait should have the same KD unless you want to argue that KEW and having Gen 2 thermals is actually a worse clickbait…

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That’s the point, everyone moves on.

10.7 didn’t change anything, 11.3 allowed for tanks that are 12.0+ to effectively counter them but tanks at it’s BR and belowstill get curb stompped

possibly, but looking at past actions they go for a less time consuming and less “keep the average player/buyer satisfied and to convince other potential buyers to buy them” approach.

That’s just hard believing considering it’s a business. If the system they have in place money, why change. Businesses don’t make the same mistake consistently unless they think it’s because of money.

Take a look at it then. Lot of the issues when it comes to ground balancing applies to air. The Ka50 is another great example of this. It took them quite a while for them to make meaningful changes.

Asking the best players in game their perspective on a vehicle’s BR, having a vote on it is “willy-nilly” but going off of the average player’s statistics isn’t?

A system that doesn’t have take profits as a factor. What you’re proposing is a system that isn’t attainable and unless we get a system that is perfect we should continue having these same issues in the game. That’s just not gonna happen. Take in steps and iterate.

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Because it’s UFP armor is pretty much the same as that on the 90M for the very large majority of shells fired at 10.3.

But that isn’t the reason why AGS is up there while 120S is down at 10.3.

Who’s going to perform better, someone grinding through TTs playing stock vehicles or level 0 premium players that installed the game yesterday ?

The influence of those level 0 players is vastly overblown here, just like dozens of other things.

AIM isn’t a TT vehicle.

Moving on from such a mess so quickly is the reason why we have what he have currently.
No wonder Gaijin is serving us buggy, untested copypaste slop that requires minimal effort to produce, as people tend to forget everything once they get hypnotized by the empty corporate talk leading to nowhere.

Moving it to 10.7 in a week shows intent to balance the vehicle as soon as possible.
Negating that is just weird.

Honestly, nothing that a community’s fault at this point.

You could look at it from a different angle.
Businesses aren’t really keen at improving their product if they keep getting away with crap.

Again, community’s fault for not giving them a reality check.

Define the best.
We gonna have teams for each and every era of vehicles so they can vote up and balance things based off of their personal playstyles and wishes ?

That isn’t really vehicle based balancing, it’s just yet another balancing slop based on subjective opinions. I guess this community is obsessed with slop.

I guess you know that for a fact ?

117

If I gotta face any more Su-30s in ARB At 12.3 in my F-16A, something is definitely wrong.

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118

it’s better than all 13.7 f16 and gripen varients in an ARB environment, and is significantly better than every plane at 13.3.
J-11A also should have stayed at 13.7, it going down to 13.3 was a bad choice on the dev’s part.

The 27SM in its part should have been 14.0 months ago after they massively buffed its flight model, even before the FM buff it was the best 13.7 by a wide margin already.

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119

Again, you’re missing the point. They chose 10.3 for a reason, and you’re trying to justify it’s BR because they used the Bishma. That doesn’t make sense. Why didn’t they use the T-90M’s BR when it comes to deciding it’s BR.

And the reason is what exactly?

Possibly, but again, you know this how?

Intent means something if change meaningful change happens quickly. 10.7 ultimately didn’t change anything, 11.3 still ruined downtiers and was a menace at it’s own BR.

Which is the point, as long as the average player is satisfied, does it matter? An average player working a 9-5 isn’t going to care about the overall health of the game and is willing to spend money as long as they are having fun.

for vehicles that bring something new to the table, highly anticipated or is good *

Majority of content added tweaks are just copy paste with slight tweaks or something that has very close relatives in game already.

Probably someone who played vehicles from all nations with a good amount of games while maintaining a good stat and is knowledgeable of the mechanics/strats . It wouldn’t make a sense to have someone like me with only completing

The goal is to have a debate and then have a vote. it would be even better if this debate was published so people know where their reasoning comes from.

Yes considering even you agree with me, just not to the extent which I believe in:

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Because if it didn’t have BS survivability the BMPT would be bad anywhere above 11.3. It’s not like Gaijin playtests stuff extensively either like we’ve seen before with the PUMA or Pt-76-57.