No, which is why I said it has a better hull than Bhishma, but in plenty of cases their effective armor will be exactly the same.
Not as a complete package, not even close lol.
BMPT peaked at like 1.5m games and now it had it’s first sale. Doesn’t really look like it’s played all that much more considering it’s both highly unique and strong premium.
It’s not maybe, they literally said they’ll start writing up the reason for every addition. All that “transparency” will surely help a ton.
One step forward, two steps backwards.
They’re still adding copious amounts of slop, pushing out broken updates and ignoring age old problems. In return they give out lots of corporate talk and drip feed positive changes, just to cover up all the crap they’re doing.
Review bomb happened years ago and problems just keep piling up. Not that I expected spineless CCs and the NPC community to do anything of value though.
Not in that amount obviously.
You seem like a guy who needs those /s tags for obvious things.
Because Gaijin has systematically ruined the gamemode. It has great potential. But the wall between what it is now and it being good is Gaijin’s own incompetance or malice.
Just need to look at the fact that the gamemode hasnt gotten a new map in 4 years and its not even like the map couldnt also be used in other gamemodes, including ARB. But the last air map added, The Falklands, was artificially shrunk down in size which made it then non-viable for ASB because it was too small to be practical… Gaijin, went out of their way, to make an ARB unusable in ASB
Ive personally stopped playing the gamemode. I want to play it, I prefer it over ARB… But the lack of content, the stale gameplay (which tbh, is an issue in every gamemode), non-existant balance, numerous vehicle bugs and issues, etc etc, has just stopped me from actually playing it
Yeah… Or even adding NT-Lite (Elements of the full NT gamemode) to the existing ASB. The gameplay exists, its in-game… just, gatekept behind 1 event mode
Your argument went from “there doesn’t exist anything similar to the T58” to talking about the BR of the tanks that are similar to the T58. Hence you’re shifting the goal post.
You’re dodging the point which is funny but it’s something I notice that you like to do when I use your own logic against you.
Offensive capabilities isn’t the only thing that’s being considered. It’s also defensive capabilities. Again, I still don’t understand why you only consider half of the equation.
You don’t need to wait on how a vehicle will perform until it goes live. You can infer. It’s not a hard concept. Money played a huge factor.
For a premium that was just released and, never went on sale, and managed be around 5th most played rank 7 premium vehicle despite other vehicles being in the game much longer and going on sale countless times.
Not sure why that’s not getting through to you but I feel like you know and just don’t want to admit it.
It does. they dig themselves a deeper hole each time they speak and the pressure rises and the cycle repeats.
Okay good, it’s good that we can come to an understanding. So where’s the threshold then? .3, .7, a whole BR? And whatever threshold you have, why did it take 4 months to move it from 10.3 to 11.7? It could very well be a mistake but to 4 months to fix it? It does make you wonder if the same mistake that’s been repeated for the 100th time is just a mistake.
I didn’t.
I purposely used Bhishma and 2M as examples of defensive and offensive capabilities.
You can to a degree which is far from accurate.
For a highly unique premium that was added at a funny BR*.
There’s no hole to dig in here, they’ll just say it’s a copy paste addition for balance reasons and be done with it. If current update is the definition of that “pressure”, then I’m afraid Gaijin has nothing to worry about.
Don’t forget, adding roadmaps was a direct result of the review bombing, but somehow Gaijin managed to get rid of it without a major crash out from the community. I guess people got complacent from a few crumbs of improvement Gaijin gave them lol.
BMPT was moved from 10.3 to 11.3 in like a month, all during holiday-heavy season. In February (first full month of 11.3), stats have shown premium BMPT got pretty neutered by that change, so I understand why they kept it at 11.3 for a while.
Also, it recently got up to 11.7 and got it’s accuracy nerfed right before it went on sale, which definitely seems interesting though. At this point it’s just a meh premium probably not worth buying over T-80U one.
And there exists tanks with features similar to the T58. To say otherwise is false.
The bhishma’s hull is significantly weaker than the T90M’s hull which you have conceded. Especially in the sides.
why even use the bhishma’s BR in the first place when they could’ve used the T90M’s as the BMPT shares the same if not better protection? Maybe it goes against your narrative?
The BMP2M’s capabilities isn’t accurate either because you’re willingly ignoring one of the BMPT’s main offensive/defensive strength. It’s crewless turret. You ever wonder why the AGS and 120s are 1.7 BRs apart despite having a worse gun? I know and I’m pretty sure you do too.
“Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me”
the saying makes a lot more sense considering this has happened countless times.
At a BR where it’s overpowered or extremely good.*
And? It was extremely good still. 15 days in 650k games, and January with 1.5m games. Quite a bit of money, don’t you think? It doesn’t help that both the Ka50 and Su39 are also at 11.3.
the UD for the most part maintained it’s KD for quite a while, so why did it still go up in BR? It’s not hard to spot a good tank that has it’s stats spoiled by inexperienced players.
So going back to your statement
Not in that amount obviously.
Now that it’s at 11.3, does it meet your threshold? Is the devs waiting 3 months to move it up in BR done based on statistics, money or a bit of both. If both, which weighs more?
There’s definitely some tanks with 155mm HESH, but balancing off of that is ridiculous. Tell me, how much does vehicle’s BR has to change if it gets 7s reload instead of 15s reload, or maybe 23s reload ?
Now do that for several other metrics and you’ll end up with a vehicle with mishmash capabilities not seen before, where you can easily make a balancing mistake.
At 10.3 both UFPs are practically the same.
Only difference is side armor and spall liners.
Because Relikt protection doesn’t even matter in certain circumstances in a BR it’s considered to be at.
It is.
2M has better means to kill an enemy vehicle, simple as.
You’re proving my point, thanks.
And what ?
You’re conveniently trying to hide the fact it was moved up by a whole BR in a month, just to push an agenda that Gaijin forgot about their “mistake” and had let it rot at 10.3 for 4 months.
Premium BMPT at 11.3 was just okay performance wise and was in line with other premiums, like Click-Bait. No wonder they took some time to move it up again, which was probably done because of the TT one.
1.5m games for a highly unique premium at it’s peak of dominance is just mid. This whole thing is probably a net negative for Gaijin due to bad publicity lol.
UD maintained good stats at 10.3 and that’s why it went up in BR, where’s the issue there ?
Also, premium vehicles perform in line with their TT copies, so using that “premium players very bad” argument is moot.
Easily 90%+ based on statistics, at least in my opinion.
Remove everything but the gun. Is there a tank with a similar gun? There is:
– Lets take the Bkan, what BR is that 6.7. What are the differences when it comes to it’s firepower?
–Faster reload, better shell at the cost of muzzle velocity. Is muzzle velocity really important when you have a fast reload?
–Not really considering a lot of maps are CQC. How much better would be the gun?
–Since it’s got a faster reload, and a much stronger round how much of a BR raise would that warrant? .3 or .7?
Lets add gun handling. What are the differences between the two?
– The T58 has much better horizontal and slightly worse vertical speed. In addition it has greater depression and no horizontal limits. How much of a BR raise would that warrant? .7 or 1.0?
Lets add mobility. what are the differences between the two?
– Though the T58 has better top speed, and acceleration, the bkan, has a much better reverse. Which is valued more? Would this be a draw?
Lets add the armor. What are the differences between the two?
– The Bkan non. It can easily be auto cannoned, maybe even 50 cal’d.
– the T58, definitely auto cannon proof from the front, maybe not on the sides, but it’s 50 cal proof.
– In addition the T58 has overlapping armor fwhich makes it trolly against many kinetic munitions frontally. How much of a BR raise would that warrant? .7 or 1.0?
When combining them, you can infer to see if it makes it stronger, which it’s most likely the case. It isn’t easy, but it isn’t hard either especially when you have a decent amount of people working on the game.
Careful now, you’re advocating the T90M to be at 11.3 because using your logic, the only difference between the B3 and it, is it’s armor and since the K5 can stop most of it’s rounds at that BR, it doesn’t matter.
It’s a flawed logic that you are trying to fit to support your argument.
Ignoring the 120s and AGS comparison doesn’t look good for your argument as a whole man. It’s better to address rather than ignoring it.
It took them 4 months for them to bring it to 11.7. Moving it to 11.3 within a month doesn’t change the fact that it was absurdly strong.
The differences between the two is crew size and turret ERA coverage. TT has more crew and Premium has better turret ERA. That shouldn’t warrant a .3 KD.
Don’t know why you’re forgetting the BMPT came out in december. It’s not gonna beat the the most popular premiums that have been in the game longer and has gone on sale multiple times.
Except there was no counterpart to the UD… It was a really good tank at 10.3 even prior to the reload buff. It’s ERA is what hard countered most post high penning rounds for that BR.
It doesn’t help your argument that the kd between TT and premium BMPT are vastly different.
What does the 10% entail then?
Which is more profitable? Stat based decision making which goes on how the average player performs? Or Vehicle based decision making which goes on how the vehicle itself performs against other vehicles?
We both agree that a lot of vehicles are undertiered because of how average players perform in them so why do you think they consistently use it? I think you know the answer to that question.
Things like this are your problem here.
You need to do that objectively without inserting your thoughts and feelings into it.
You can see that something is stronger, but knowing by how much exactly is the hard part here, because you’re not using objective facts, rather subjective interpretations of various metrics.
This makes it really easy to over/under BR something so unique.
Not really, K5 can already get penned by things like M829A2 and DM53, which does make a difference.
Unlike K5 and Relikt down at 10.3, where both are practically immune to the likes of DM23 and M774.
That’s like saying there’s a substantial difference between a 500mm and a 600mm pen dart down at 3.0 or something. There simply isn’t.
What’s there to address ?
I think you need to re-read our conversation.
Premium BMPT at 11.3 definitely wasn’t absurdly strong.
Says who, you ?
You just took your own opinions about something and made them into an objective truth, which simply isn’t realistic. Balance-guru doing such an amateur move is peak.
TT one is outperforming premium one all the time, so I guess that extra crew has more weight to it than better turret ERA. And no, saying “they’re the same but premium players suck which is why the premium one consistently has noticeably worse K/D” isn’t a valid argument.
And you keep forgetting it’s a highly unique premium that was added at an extremely favorable BR, which should boost the sales drastically.
Just a reminder to not use that “premium players bad” card on me, it isn’t going to work.
I think it doesn’t help yours, seeing what you’re writing above lol.
Former one simply because it’s much easier to make and maintain without doing catastrophic mistakes. Time is money.
I always laugh when someone makes an argument that Gaijin should ditch statistics based balancing in favor of “vehicle based” balancing. They always disappear when I ask them to do an objective weighing of all the different metrics, mostly because this community is immensely good at parroting dumb shit without realizing what they’re saying or asking for.
How much BR points should a vehicle get by switching from DM43 to DM53 ?
How much BR points should a vehicle get by having 25 HP/t instead of 22 HP/t ?
How much BR points should a vehicle get by having 4s reload instead of 6s reload ?
All of those are extremely hard questions to answer objectively, which is why vehicle based balancing is unfeasible and is just a buzzword on this forum at this point.
The situation with the VT4 is truly unfortunate.
But as far as I know, regardless of your political stance, Taiwan is China.
If other tech trees vehicles has been found inin Taiwan TT, vehicles should be in the Chinese tree under the Taiwanese flag.
id call it a disgusting outburst honestly, very rich for players of a nation that has only a handful of native designs, the rest are C&P or slight variants.
PRC and ROC are two seperate countries. but in WT they are in the same tree for simplicity’s sake, which is perfectly fine.
correct. The only issue is that a lot of things surrounding both chinas are inherantly political, or made political which is lame and cringe
You are missing the point. This one of the ways you can look at a unique vehicle. I’m not giving an answer or a proper way but it’s to show that it isn’t impossible like what you’re suggesting. It took me 10ish minutes to think of this while I was waiting for my program to build.
Not reliably. M829A2 will mostly still struggle which is why you still aim for weakspots. A3 was introduced to defeat k5. Aiming lower glacies and drivers hatch has always been the strategy pre A3.
You’re trying to figure out why it was placed at this BR and in doing so trying to convince people that they used the bishma as a similar hull rather than the T-90M.
Again, your argument can easily be used to justify the BR of any vehicle with impenetrable hull or a railgun. Moving it lower makes you com
How little thinking you put into you arguments as seen below. You’re purposely dodging the question.
Which is why it isn’t a 12.7 light vehicle.
It was.
Did I ever say it was? It’s a logical interpretation of two vehicles that are very similar. BMPTS die more to ammo rack than rather than crew knock out. Of course we don’t have the data to for it, but when dealing with them, ammo rack is the most effective way to kill them.
But it could be. You don’t know because we don’t have the stats of each player however I’m not the one who’s looking at very vague stats and treating it as the gospel lol.
You’re proving my point lol. Why do you think this conversation started lol ?
Oh so you agree that there’s no counterpart then?
Yeah because the BMPT and T58, Ka50, F14a, SM3, etc is an indicator of that?
You seem to think vehicle based balancing requires formulas and if it doesn’t we must go based off of stats.
It’s to have an honest discussion without bringing profit into the mix. Having a group of people (whether it be the devs or top players or whatever else) each with their own preferences explaining their view points, weighing the pros/cons on a vehicle and having a vote is the best way to go about this.
I still don’t get why you think in binary and stay confined to limited solutions. Maybe it helps you debate but it doesn’t help the game.
This is just generally untrue, but you do have a point.
It all depends on the environment around it and how it stacks up against opponents at its own BR. For example it’s difficult to properly determine if the J-7E and F-4E should be the same Br just by comparing them, so you need to look at how other 11.0-11.7 planes compare and balance from there.
Also when I ask for vehicle based balancing I mainly just want Gaijin to justify their BR changes in a tangible way, or even justify current BR places for questionably Br’ed planes. (Why are the Tornados/Su-24 still 11.3 when there are 11.0s that are better, or why did the Q-5s get moved to 10.0 despite being worse than some 9.7s.)
And it’d take you much more to do it objectively, which is the whole point here.
Depends on the range really.
However, Relikt is safe from any range and against any round.
There isn’t that much to answer in the first place.
It simply wasn’t.
It’s an interpretation that seems “logical” to you and is backed up by nothing to be honest.
I’d also like the data for the second part, as otherwise I can claim BMPTs die more to crew knock out than ammo racks.
And it could very much be that two extra crew members are actually much more helpful than better turret ERA. It’s already established that premium vehicles have extremely similar stats to their TT copies.
You’re dismissing global stats because vague but you’re more than happy to take your own opinions as a gospel. Not looking great for you lol.
I’m proving the point that sales weren’t that great considering the circumstances behind it.
They’ve received a ton of bad rep because of it without extra sales to back it up.
As said earlier, this could very well be a net negative for them.
Knowingly releasing a 11.7 vehicle at 10.3 for profits is just yet another forum conspiracy.
Why were you even thinking that I said UD is a counterpart to any USSR TT vehicle ?
That’s a still highly subjective way of balancing vehicles and is prone to mistakes.
This is not a limited solution, this is the only objective solution to bring an end to the balancing drama.
Anything other than that is just moving the problems around without truly fixing anything.