The funniest part is that R-77s aren’t even necessary to absolutely wipe the floor with F-18s
A T-90M hull which is at 12.7. if we are low-balling it’s firepower to the likes of the BMD, it would be (9.7+12.7)/2 = 11.2
Even by using two metrics, the math just doesn’t make sense.
They are, what they have in common is a crewless turret. The devs knew this, as well as knew about it’s firepower and protection and still decided to put this at 10.3.
If your argument is that the devs didn’t know or they suck at balancing, then it’s poor argument to make.
Despite it not going on sale till now it managed to be around the 5th or 6th most played rank 7 premium and in april it reached 3rd.
What you’re thinking is that this needs to be binary. Either it happens to every unique premium or nothing, It’s a very naive way to think about it. Like I said before, they know when to take advantage of this, if they do it all the time, it’ll cause way too much drama then what there already is. But if they do it occasionally they can get away with it a lot more easily.
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I misremembered the T-90A as having Relikt. with Relikt its the same hull as the T-72B3 at 11.3 which puts it at an average 10.5, which is just a case of they rounded down when they should have rounded up.
You do realize the hull doesn’t change from T-72B to T-90M right? They just strap on different ERA.
had to change it I see lol
Relikt on the sides.
It doesn’t have relikt on front and the turret (the ones that stop KE projectiles). It also doesn’t have spall liners. For the regular BMPT you have much better ERA coverage. For the BMPT-72, I believe it’s the same but slightly worse than it’s TT counterpart (I don’t have the vehicle or the game for me to check)
The T-90M is still better when it comes to protection compared to the B3.
This is ignoring that it has a crewless turret. can launch 4 atgms back to back, and it has a redundant cannon.
And? The ERA is still integral to it’s armor package. To dismiss it as just another ERA strapped is disingenuous.
- Being tracked is also a thing they have in common!
- T58 has a main gun like most other vehicles at it’s BR, so this means it’s balancing should already be solved!
Different things can and will add up when dealing with unique vehicles that don’t follow the already established additions.
I don’t think it is.
Against ~10.3 enemies it has very similar hull armor profile as Bhishma, which can be found at 10.7.
It also has worse offensive capabilities when compared to BMP-2M, which can be found at 10.3.
You also need to tell me what’s better ? Main cannon that can fire 3BM42 every 6-7s or an anemic autocannon with missiles strapped to it.
Most played since when ?
Or they simply don’t know how to balance unique vehicles with mishmash capabilities.
We’re talking features of a tank, not basic facts. If you want to be dishonest and misconstrued my argument, be my guest.
A 2s reload is a feature, a crewless turret is a feature, having a redundant cannon is a feature. All of this exist in game. It requires critical thinking, which Gaijin does have but it’s a business first which is something you can’t seem to comprehend.
If you followed Gajin’s most controversial decisions over the years, you would realize that it stems from player frustration. They try to introduce economy changes, pw2 mechanics, power creep, etc in order to drive frustration. This leads to buying a vehicle, buying past the stock grind, buying premium, or whatever else in order to further progress in the game or have fun. A lot of the playerbase and CCs agree with this sentiment so it’s surprising that you think otherwise.
Last time I checked, the Bhishma doesn’t have relikt era, side armor and spall liners. Are we talking about the same tank lol?
If I completely ignore it’s survivability, crewless turret and redundant cannon, I’d pick the T-72 Turms over the BMPT.
I can use this poor argument when talking about the T58 lol. Would you want a 7s reload, stabilized, apfsd cannon with a laser range finder, or a 2s reload, non-apfsds, non-stabilized gun? Do you see how flawed your argument is?
go to statshark and look at individual months since it came out. do the same for the T58.
If that’s what you want to believe. A lot of CCs and the playerbase seems to think otherwise.
155mm autoloaded gun with 2.6s reload wasn’t really a thing before T58, so you have no clue how good it’s performance will be and how will it impact the BR it’s being added at.
I understand very well that Gaijin is a business, but saying that Gaijin added BMPT 1.3 BR lower on purpose to gain profits is a conspiracy theory worthy of this forum.
Adding stock grind is much more different than placing a premium vehicle 1.3 BR lower on purpose.
K5 is already more than enough to stop vast majority of rounds at ~10.3, such as M774, DM23 and others.
You’re seemingly missing the point.
I’m not interested in your opinion what’s better, I’m rather interested in what’s objectively better.
I know it’s a tough thing to answer, which can lead to subjective interpretations of things and mistakes.
Gee, high tier premium sold more than a 8.3 one, shocker.
All that baiting resulted in BMPT-72 having similar amount of games as other high tier premiums.
Gaijin would either go bankrupt or change their ways if “a lot” of the playerbase really thought like that. Most of the crying comes from a very loud minority that enjoy following their CC shepherds, that in turn make content to rile them up.
I won’t even start talking about grifter CCs.
Read above.
And again, won’t even start talking about grifter CCs.
This is off-topic atp
regardless that is the logic I believe they used to estimate its’ BR. It’s rather pointless to argue over it because, regardless of if I’m right or wrong, what ever logic they used was badly flawed, as they where wayyyy off the mark for it’s preformance.
All the bug with it’s survivability didn’t help either.
is this an air rb thread?
I have no idea why you’re acting as if the T-58 does something so out of this word, when things like this existed for quite a while.
To say that gaijin doesn’t purposely add overpowerd vehicles to pressure people buying it or rushing it, is a level of naivety or corporate bootlicking I thought I’d never see in the forums.
there was a time, where parts and fpe wasn’t cheap, there was a time where top tier MBTs was only given heatfs, and there was a time where repair costs were extremely high.
Why do you think they were there to begin with?
If you think frustration is part of their tactic to force players to spend money in the game, what stops you from thinking that vehicles won’t also used to further frustration?
Fortunately the community as a whole usually kept them in check and because of that the game has gotten a lot better since but it’s always a tug of war.
There’s no “objective truth” when it’s a poorly written question.
So what makes you think having relict at 10.3 is a good idea? You’re also ignoring the ERA coverage that the BMPT as well as the spall liners.
that wasn’t the point. It’s to point out the absurd amount of sales both of these vehicles has when they first came out.
Yeah, as other high tier premiums that that’s been in the game a lot longer and went on sale countless times…
Thanks you for proving my argument.
You do realize that WT is the only game of it’s kind? Where would the player base go? To wot? To dcs?
I still don’t get why you try think in binary when it’s nuanced. It has always been a tug of war between the player base and gajin. I don’t know when you started playing, so you should look at the history of the game and it’s controversies, it’s pretty obvious they use frustration as a way to monetize their paid products.
I think that’s fine but my main issue is if money influenced their BR decision making when it comes to vehicle implementation which really seems to be the case if you look at their past actions.
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I’m not going into all of that but the guy is a shill, his posts are half truths at best. They absolutely release premiums at a lower br to make money, you’re not just incompetent after the 109th time.
Nobody, Literally nobody could’ve thought the bmpt was balanced at 10.3…
but I play air rb! this is very common here too!
su30s are currently op moreso the Chinese one
The su25k at 8.7 on release was literally insane
A10s shooting aim9l at 9.7
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Jesus
I don’t know why some players think there’s a Chinese bias when Gaijin just messes things up.
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I completely agree, if the F-18C late and the Mirage 20005F are 14.0, there’s no reason for the Su-27SM to be 13.7.
Good job highlighting turretless abominations.
I also heard people complaining about SAV being too strong due to it’s crazy reload speed, I guess Gaijin struggles with those.
Again, there’s a huge difference between adding something one BR step too low and adding it four steps too low.
Latter is a good conspiracy theory to keep the forum regulars busy and engaged.
Read above.
You’re free to give me an objective truth now that you know what that question was all about.
Giving objective weight to all of the different variables is hard, which is why stat-based balancing is used.
Sure, BMPT has a more armored hull than Bhishma.
It still has worse firepower than BMP-2M though.
Hindsight is strong, but I’d personally place it at 10.7 in the beginning.
I was being generous there.
Something like a premium T-80U peaks at almost 4m games on sale, which is like almost a 2x increase in games. All that hype around BMPT and it still sells like a generic premium that has way less uniqueness and OPness to it.
Mission failed I guess.
So you’re basically saying you’re ready to play the game no matter what because “where else should I go”. That’s one of the saddest arguments I’ve seen, no wonder Gaijin is making millions by selling slop. People are eating it anyways.
If a large part of the community is indeed unhappy alongside spineless CCs, Gaijin would have no option but to cave in to demands of the majority spenders. Seeing how things are getting worse, I doubt malders are in great numbers, unlike their echochambers.
Glad that you agree with me that there does exist vehicles with high caliber fast reloading guns. Not sure why you were feigning ignorance then.
Okay good, so you do agree that Gaijin uses balancing to pressure people into buying them. You just disagree that it’s the sole cause for it to be too low. You know, you could’ve started with this instead of playing contrarian? It just makes people think you’re a shill.
It’s really not. Almost all vehicles added now has features that existing tanks already have like I just pointed out with the T-58 and BMPT. You can’t seem to come up with a counter argument other than “nuh uh” which is something I guess.
Not sure if you forgot the context of that message so you might need a refresher on that. the BMPT, despite just coming out in December, managed to be on average the 5th most played rank 7 premium…
Thought you’d get that by now.
If you put it that way, yes. But it’s a very immature and naive way to think about which you have showcased a lot in this thread.
A more logical way to put it is that WT offers a service that no one else can. It’s as simple as that.
They have a couple years ago, and they still do albeit it requires a lot of CCs getting involved for something to happen as evident by the sepv3 dev blog post, copy paste post, and probably many more to come . Not sure why you’re getting the impression that CCs along with the community isn’t doing anything.
Maybe if you stopped being vague and point out a CC that’s a shill or spineless instead of lumping a bad CC with the good ones?
There is when they keep bending the knee to their extremely loud and racist playerbase whenever the question of Chinese export or Taiwan comes up
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But what about PL-12?
The missile where one guy used an AI image to try and get it buffed?
Yea gaijins completely stuck with that one now, there’s no way to trust anything on it anymore.
I’ve given guidance to legitimate people on how to sort out bug reports correctly in the past, unfortunately a few little gits screw it up for them.
Either way for how that playerbase acts they get treated with far too much good faith Vs everyone else.