Su-27 And J-11 Dev Server 12/9/2023

A friend and I have been playing the dev server for a little over a day and have gotten the new Su’s. I’m glad to see an actual dogfight-capable aircraft with the new R-73 come to Russia and China and cant wait till The US Mains cry that their 20yr outdated jet just cant keep up with big put’s bird and Gijin decides to nurf it into the ground like both of the migs


I can’t wait until gaijin nerfs it into the ground either ;)

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No they won’t,at least not that fast.

Bro we have F-16A and you just got the new heat hot Russian F-14 lol

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its sad that top tier air is just US babysitting like everyone els didnt have to deal with aim 54 phoenix for 6 months


Phoenix’s we’re never an issue they’ve always been easy to defeat, just listen to your RWR and notch.


Um… I hate to break it to you but Su-27 is from 1985.
F-16C is from the 1990s.
The Sukhoi is the older jet.


TWS not triggering RWR. Good idea.

The missile triggers RWR in pitbull range of 16km.
Which is more than enough time to dodge current AIM-54s.

He’s not wrong that AIM-54s were always easy to defeat, just people were confused by them and still are.
IDK how easy WT will make AMRAAMs & R-77s easy to defeat, but I await the time next year.


Almost every time I died to AIM-54 was because RWR just didn’t activate until seconds before impact, for whatever reason or simply never activated. AIM-54 remains unique insofar as it’s the only long range missile that is essentially a free kill. If it misses, no big deal you have 5 more (or you can have say 1-3 AIM-54 and the rest AIM-7) and basically all you did was toss a coin, you lose weight of the missile and you might get a kill or something.

Until Su-27 which comes like 1.5 years down the line, you could have more Sparrows than any other plane, or carry 2 phoenix and carry as many Sparrows as the next largest amount.

You fire at a range nobody can currently fire back. It’s a unique position to sling missiles with, granted no guaruntee of a kill, de-facto impunity at certain distances.

For now it’s just a position where F-14 can control an engagement and its prey can notch to lose position and speed just to avoid getting nuked, or fly low enough to have to scrape treetops, even then you can get nuked with basically 0 counterplay.

It’s a VERY dominant position to be in and the unique nature of this situation seems oft ignored or significantly downplayed.

To bring this back to the wider game, I don’t think the game will be very fun if the multipathing is fixed, missiles get their selective proxy range so as not to detonate due to ground proximity. Phoenixes would become very evil weapons.

My opinion, remove R-27ER and try to make things work as they stand, AIM-9M creep is really not good, at least R-73 is restricted to only a few planes (MiG-29 with R-60M is a travesty of balance)

For relevance to the topic, I was watching a duelest, “piiot_” on twitch playing Su-27 vs F-14A in regular duelling settings. The Su-27 could only win fights by using full real controls to Cobra after the merge and fire R-73 into the F-14A on occasions when the R-73 didn’t fall prey to the flares, otherwise F-14A (presumably also B) has superior flight performance and Su-27 has no hope to win.

R-27ER isn’t anymore of a threat than AIM-7F/M; they’re both threatening…
I know, it’s not the popular take. It’s a 30? G radar missile that zooms.
I still rarely die to one. I’ll die to R-60s more often than R-27ERs cause while radar missiles are easy to defeat, a person shoving an R-60 up my exhaust from 700 meters away doesn’t get defeated.

All I can say is for people to embrace the squirrels as I have. Even when ARHs come we’re all gonna be within the trees, which is why maps like Rocky Pillars are important, to encourage people to change movement.

Missile spreadsheet

Guided weaponry data (in-game values) Honorable mention for Jaek_ for making amazing videos on missile on YouTube If you want to reach enlightment, then you have to spade the Italian heli line, no talisman/ premium/ boosters - Google Spreadsheets

Frankly the R-27ER has a few exceptional characteristics (35G as an example), making it not a very good solution to the games current problems. AIM-54 is also really good with 17g, which is often underestimated.

Simply R-27ER is too exceptional and having 6 on a plane is excessive. AIM-7M is much easier to dodge or deal with, not that it’s easy either, in terms of kinetic dodging.

AAM-3 is not great to add either, AIM-9M was bad enough. Serious missile creep, hope we don’t see Python 4 (in the files now) for a long time.

Tree hugging and ground hugging isn’t something I really like because some maps just have big trees and you are unable to go to low enough altitudes to get meaningful clutter. Also, again, an F-14 can climb to where it is impossible to attack it and just lord over the battlefield, picking off targets at whim.

So most are forced to hug the ground, which places more emphasis on flight performance and engine power, planes with better flight performance and missiles can contest each other, but some have unique uncontestable powers. Like AIM-9M and AAM-3 carriers. Currently they can park behind an opponent and force them to dump loads of flares and energy just to dodge a single missile, then fire another until the kill is confirmed. Basically 0 counterplay and doesn’t create a good situation. R-73 is comparitively very flare hungry and so doesn’t require such extremes to deal with.

he did have a point tho, the pheonix single handedly destroyed high altitude combat. top teir isnt fun anymore

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Radar missiles in general did that.
It was always going to happen, just like real life.

Then, in my opinion, the way to make the game better and fun is to focus on ECM and improve the realism/complexity of counter-missile technology and gameplay.

Currently it’s just piling on more and more powerful missiles at a rate where no counterplay exists.

I liked older meta where missiles served to defeat players who had otherwise been distracted or bled of energy or countermeasures, now the missiles do all that for you.

I like missile jousting and it’s genuinely fun to do sometimes, or a plane like MiG-25 which I would be so excited to get MiG-25PD in War Thunder. Or gunfighting is also fun.

The game is much less fun for me when the counterplay to missiles just involves extremely narrow circumstances where only the correct combination of extreme flight performance and very specific countermeasure patterns, is able to defeat 1 of up to 6 missiles that can be flung your way.

It radically marginalises planes with normal flight performance, lower amounts of countermeasures and so on.

A well constructed meta and good BR spacing and placement should allow for vehicles with mixtures of advantages and disadvantages to fight, current top tier (the same bleeds down to many lower br’s due to compression starting even in reserve vehicles) revolves around more or less flawless vehicles with minor tradeoffs duking it out whilst outclassing most of the nearby contemporaries.

This is an avoidable situation, for the betterment of the game.


quit your puffin

thats a lot of words go thing im not readin em

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You need to link the video of this twitch stream showing that the F-14A and B out does a Su-27 in close!!! I have been playing the Dev Server for two days now…there is NO way in H$#L that happened to someone who knows up from down! I have the F-15A, Su-27 and the Gripen on the dev…they all can beat the 14 in a dog fight with their eyes closed!

Stream in question


From 55 minutes in “piiot_” starts duelling with a player called “fineapple_pizza”

Su-27 vs F-14A duels start at 1 hour 3 minutes. This matchup lasts until 1 hour 25 minutes. It takes the F-14A player a while to warm up, but after a few minutes of these duels the F-14A starts winning with little contest.

I’m curious how you’d rate the skill of these players, if there are better sources etc. I’m not really a big Air RB player or familiar with dueling generally, so forgive my ignorance.

They seem ok…but in the 27 you don’t want to rate fight, you want to hit the merge not to fast and not to slow 700kph 800kph and use the high aoa of the 27 to get the gun or the 73 on…they are also playing almost clean…with full loads for air RB the 14 will struggle. Sorry if I sounded rude in the last message XD

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