i created my own report with a bit more sources
Extra ASO-2V Countermeasure dispensers under fuselage
now they cannot deny it (hopefully), also
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Kh-25MTP Infrared guided AGMs (basically the father of the Kh-38MT AGMs but not nearly as much range)
Su-17/22M4 can carry 6 of them, finally a comparison to the A-10 and its 6 IR guided Mavericks
Also S-8L or S-8Kor, a laser guided version of the S-8 rocket. however this is a recent development, hence dont have any hopes for this
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update:
the report for the extra ASO-2V dispensers was accepted.
lets hope we see it soon!
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/cygO2ChNJwre
this is so funny i cant stop laughing
Gee… Wonder who Bug Report Manager #1 could be…
I have no clue
(^-^)
Spoiler
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welp, i mean. thats the point of origin for the anonymity.
thankfully cooler minds sometimes prevail which is why bug reports do end up getting accepted
I see the want for a better Su-17M4, but at the same time if you are going to propose better armament, do it right and without mistake. I see a large amount of inaccuracies in this thread.
No clue how you pulled out Yemen and Poland, but they didnt use the KAB-500L at all (especially not on the Su-22M4). Su-17M4 doesnt even have KAB-500L, and honestly why would you want it? Guiadance would be absolutely terrible and next to impossible.
Bro its not better than an unguided bomb, and also you have two KH-29T which are far better in every way. Then you can supplement with KH-25ML which would be better than a KAB-500L on this thing anyway. I dont know what it is with German mains just wanting everything on the earth just because it exists.
Absolutely meaningless for KH-29TE because it is impossible to get a lock before 10km. Plus you wouldnt ever use this because you would be limited to the janky targetting solution
KH-29T exists for a reason, plus why do you need this on Su-22M4? You have other planes in Germany bro that can do the same if not a little better. Do you really want a Su-22M4 at higher tier with slightly better weapons? It would be absolutely trash
This entire section is just completely false. Su-22M5 was just a thought in USSR which was abandonned, and there was never a prototype. No clue how you got that image but it is actually from the cockpit of a Polish-Israel Su-22M4 upgrade proposal from 2001.
Same image you posted, but with color and more detail. You can also see outside the window, and the open cockpit.
Image of the full aircraft at MSPO 2001. This proposed upgrade would actually be a good Su-22M4 but NOT for Germany or Russia.
Conclusion:
I see you trying bro and I see good intention, but please do more research and confirm that research multiple times.
As for what I think can be added:
German Su-22M4
- Yeah practically nothing, i dont know what you expected. It probably could get the KH-25MT but I dont know if Germany bought those.
Su-17M4
- R-13M1
- KAB-500Kr under fuelselage
- kh-25mt
yes i have rescinded that desire. although i only initially listed it because of some, now discovered to be, questionable sources
i was going to respond logically but you dont seem interested.
ig youve never point fired because you know the spaa aint moving from spawn
yeah now that i have revised my stance we dont NEED it. its just something it could use.
not at the same BR
it would be at the same BR because we already see an F-117F at 11.7 with MAWS, and IR guided AGMS (6 of them) vs 2 TV guided ones of the Su-22M4.
i desire the M4 to have 6 TV guided AGMs in the form of either 2 29Ts and 4 25MTs or just straight up 6 25MTs
youre talaking about the Su-17M5. not the Su-22M5. yes there is a difference but i dont blame you.i was confused by the same thing earlier.
true for 17M5, not for 22M5, of which, iirc, only the cockpit had these… supposed mockup improvements
that is, again, a different project altogether. many sources online confuse them which is why its better to consult the books instead.
and yes i know this too. i apologise if it came across as a desire for Germany to get it. because it wasnt
according to the official stances of gaijin, if a vehicle can use the weapons, then it can get them.
so, i hold out hope. plus the extra countermeasures attached on the lower rear side is also a bonus
I know its different altogether, but you sent the wrong image. Did you liternally not look at the photographs?
what f-117 has maws and ir guided agms?? Plus if you think giving the Su-22M4 FOUR extra FnF AGMs wont drastically increase its BR, then you clearly dont understand the game. Also the Su-22M4 sits at a healthy 11.0. Do you really want it to get extra AGMs and be even worse at 11.3 or 11.7? It has two guranteed kills with the KH-29T which is plenty at 11.0. The rest can be done with the laser guided weaponry.
I also know that you meant F-111F, but again 11.0 is a lot different than 11.7. If you want to compare F-111 to Su-22 then look at the F-111A that is at 10.7. Then if you compare the Su-22M4 to F-111A you can see that the Su-22M4 is obviously better.
Im not saying this like I dont know how to play the vehicle either, Ive spaded the Su-22M3 in Italy which is wayyy worse because it lacks the Kh-29T but still sits at the same BR. I havent found any problems with the Su-22M3 other than the first part of getting used to the cockpit laser designation system.
This is not always the case, and is very vehicle specific. It is usually said if a vehicle needs a weapon it does not have access to for balancing. This is not the case for the German Su-22M4. Also Su-22 and Su-17 are technically different planes. If you find a Su-22M4 from pre 1989 that uses both KAB-500Kr and KH-25MT then send proof.
The Su-22M5 is a real thing, but is very similiar to Su-17M5 in terms of being physical. It was a proposed upgrade for Su-22 series aircraft by Thompson-CSF. There are no pictures of it that it can find nor proof it really happened.
The picture that you sent is NOT of a ‘su-22m5’ cockpit. It is a Polish Su-22M4 cockpit from MSPO 2001
Plus I mean at 11.0 just use the Swiss F-5E which solves all you problems. In Russia you have Su-25BM (or if you dont have it Su-25T which is just 0.3 higher).
Su-17/22 are very niche planes, and if you dont know how to use them or dont like them, just use a different plane. But also realize that just adding more AGMs wont solve its problem, it will only make it worse. I really didnt want to anger you so much, I was just trying to point that some better research could be done. Being correct is very important when it comes to bug reporting, as if you arent correct or leave something up to interpretation, the bug reporter is just going to dismiss the report (if he doesnt dismiss the report already for gaijin being gaijin).
Just realize that consequences come with adding these weapons to Su-17M4 (and I mean if you really want them on Su-22M4 i dont know what to tell you, probably wont happen either way).
I support the KAB-500Kr as another option instead of Kh-29T on Su-17M4, and KH-25MT possibly on both aircraft. Also I know R-13M/M1 would be great but be sure its for the Su-17M4 and not an earlier variant.
Otherwise man, not much can be done and not much should be done. These aircraft are in a very tricky place and I mean they are fine as they are now
Spoiler
the cockpit is of the aircraft Su-17M4 “59 Yellow”
as you can see… the image of the full aircraft you shared is not 59 yellow
its “9305 yellow”
the source also mentiones the polish upgrades, but as is seen, theyre different
i meant the F-111F
mb i misplaced the 1 with a 7
i do, and i say this because other aircraft are at the same BR with more FnF missiles and arguably greater CAS capability
dont get me wrong i absolutely love the 22M4 which is why i want to see the best of it
the 500Kr is listed in the official sukhoiwebsite as for the 25MT its in multiple secondary sources
lemme see if i can share them
Yeah that is completely incorrect. It says Su-17M4 which suggests it would be a russian air force upgrade. Clearly not true as there are western avionics. Plus literally look at my photo. It is from MSPO 2001.
Janes has known to be wrong on things before, and from what I know gaijin doesnt even accept them as a source. Id fact check that other than basing it on one photo
Also how do you extract Su-22M5 from a photo that says Su-17M4??? The photo doesnt mention anything about Su-22M5 or Thompson-CSF.
Im just saying man you should fact check stuff at least 2-3 times before posting. Ive had to do it alot for my Tornado reports.
its not janes…
a different project. M5 has 3 instances, one even being german but ofcourse not all of them went to plan
Reread the caption, Janes is the source of information for the photograph and caption
not the caption however. its not as if janes can be as blind as to say that aircraft with a polish flag is russian
besides, the polish upgrades were for the M3K and UM3K, not the M4
the M4 upgrades the polish did actually went thru but they were just minor. nothing like MFDs etc
Yes, but technically sukhoj still offers the Su-22M4. If you can find a photo of a pre 1989 using KAB-500Kr or a manual to support that would be solid evidence
lol there arent any images of the fitter carrying guided bombs. at all. (ofc that i know of) only sources
Bro im telling you that is the polish cockpit, I dont know what else more to say.
Literally my photo is evidence to the contrary, yellow 9305 was a 22M4.
It seems that youve found a unreliable source, sucks to suck. Happens to me all the time. You just gotta fact check and find new sources. Dont base everything off one source that clearly has many flaws