I dunno. A tungsten dart carrying 1 milion jules of energy with it should for sure do more.
Hope the link works
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Its still a really small missile, that has a jetisoned booster section.
By the time it arms and impacts any modern tanks armour should repel it.
I would also wager whether or not a Pantsir missile can be used to hit any target and does not require an aerial track before hand. Useage in a certain event with reinforce this with Pantsir favouring to use the 30mm on small targets and not missiles.
Roland couldn’t not be used on ground targets it simply was not designed with that in mind.
Starstreak can though and was designed as such, as of now a tungsten dart travelling at mach 3.0 penetrates less.
Based on old videos they nerfed the penetration values by 20mm! from what I can see it was 50mm once upon a time. It would definitely align with nerfing the Teapache’s ability to use them in an A2G capacity
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one million Jules of energy isn’t really a lot in this context. If we take what they say in the video mach 3 and 1MJ, with (m*v^2)/2=E we get to the point where the dart weighs a total of ~1.89kg. The dart isn’t made for armor penetration as it is also filled with electronics and explosives which gives it WAY less structural integrity than a APFSDS shell.
So compare that to a APFSDS shell, lets say DM33 that weighs 4.3kg and moves at roughly mach 5 which gives it a kinetic energy of slightly over 6.3 million Jules. and that is also designed for armor penetration and is Solid Tungsten.
So a starstreak dart has less than 1/6 the energy and likely less than 1/5 the overall density and as such way less structural integrity.
So if we then just assume that those factors result in 1/30 the amount of penetration capabilities (its likely even going top be less than that due to how armor is designed) and use the 0m values of the DM33 of 496mm penetration we get 496/30=~16.5mm of penetration. lets give it the benefit of the doubt and increase the average density as well as a bit of extra speed that would land us at 20mm penetration.
These calculations are most likely not correct but i just wanted to show how much those things can effect penetration values.
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compare the changed speed, that’s likely your answer to the changed pen values.
and as the video you sent med stated; mach 3 which is ~1029~m/s so even slower than what the game currently uses.
We both know Gaijin don’t do energy calculations for weapon systems they put it into the Jacob de Marre formula. Pretty disingenuous to present this as the case for discussion.
Comparing a full size APFSDS dart is also questionable perhaps an APFSDS from a 25mm autocannon would have been a better example?
What data do we use to allow a Pantsir missile to penetrate that much armour, Or a Roland the missile has fragmentation warhead designed to shoot down aircraft and it also has electronics to lower it’s density.
On one hand we have a system designed for this purpose on the other hand we have Gaijin placating Russia and Germany allowing a Roland and Pantsir to destroy tanks.
Those use HE filler while the starstreak is using kenetic energy.
They use the HE pen formula that all HE rounds use.
Which is a ridiculous way to model an air defence missile.
it should have less penetration as it doesn’t have a penetrator. It is not an HE weapon
It explodes in a cloud of shrapnel it has a continuous rod warhead
All that energy would be dissipated vertically along the structure of what it hits directly
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Just as a reference here is the penetration of a US 105mm HE shell
And here is a current NATO 155mm shell Gaijin would have us believe a Pantsir air defence missile has the same penetration and damage as a 155mm HE shell.
Which is exactly why i said:
They weren’t ment to show any thing else than how big of a difference speed and density can make for penetration.
They use Jacob de Marre for AP/APC/APBC/APCBC shells. for APFSDS they use the Lanz-Odermatt formula. but the Lanz-Odermatt formula wont work for anything with a density lower than like 16 point something g/cm^3 .
and i don’t think any of those can be used for the starstreak. It has to low density for the Lanz-Odermatt and the Jacob de Marre assumes uniform solid armor as well as disregards density and length of the shell.
I don’t really think it can be compared to any sort of penetrating shell to any reasonable extent as even if we just take straight up numbers they are going to be way to high for the starstreak as it isn’t of uniform density and is full of electronics and explosives which would make just crumble to pieces against any modern layered armor. Again, the calculations above was just to show how much speed/density can affect things.
Now i know Wikipedia isn’t a source but i don’t have the energy to search for better onesso… yeah.
If we look at those numbers they write that each dart weighs 0.9kg and 450g of that is just explosives. that means 0.45kg of metal at roughly 1100m/s , metal that isn’t densely packed (https://youtu.be/2w1LPOPeM-Y?si=kDapxO8-qrK-ljim&t=69) and where a lot of it explodes out to the sides instead of going into the armor. lets be super generous and say that 0.38kg metal remains to make it easy to compare to something like the 35mm APDS shell of the CV9035DK which weighs 0.38kg and travel at 1400m/s.
so using the mv^2/2=E again we get 372kJ for the APDS and 230kJ for the star streak with the speed being the only difference (even if there is going to be A lot more than that affecting it). That means only 62% of the energy and if we just use straight numbers (which, again, are going to give us way to high pen-numbers) we get 127mm0.62=~79mm penetration. And that’s being hugely generous with many things.
You are comparing the wrong things. the HE shells penetrates with the explosive mass, not the speed/mass of the shell. The Pantsir missile has close to the same amount of TNT equivalent as the 155mm HE shell.
The starstreak has like less than a fifth the amount of TNT equivalent of both.
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I’ve never seen any reliable evidence of it being designed for air to ground use.
(2) Future Weapons: Starstreak THOR - YouTube
It’s old but it was marketed to be able to do both, I think like most things it’s niche was found with air defence.
Also look how it tracks the target guiding the missile nothing like what we have in game.
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Dart has 50mm. It wasn’t nerfed.
Surely we have to consider how the fuse and projectile functions. A 155mm HE shell is designed
To explode.
An airdefence missile yes Pantsir shot into the air and if it failed to detonate and fell back to earth would cause damage. That is very different from being shot at a tank. And penetrating/over penetrating.
I’m not saying Starstreak should be able to destroy tanks but neither should Pantsir or Roland
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I’m not at all certain here but doesn’t the 95Ya6 have a contact fuse as well?
(thus making it act like an HE shell when shot at a tank)
It will have both but the composition of the warhead and payload delivery are very different.
They did both. I think.
Sure, but it’s still ~8.5kg of TNT equivalent explosives that overpressures tanks. the deliver method matters little when it’s the amount of explosives that are ment to create the primary damage in both cases.
Whilst the star streak has 1.5kg of TNT equivalent explosives.
The missile would fuse detonate it’s continual rod warhead in a sphere. Would it focus the energy through the tank like a HEAT round?