I agree but trying to make that point has been like headbutting a brick wall
1 Like
Wasn’t this the T-50-2?
there is a pretty significant jump in capabilities between YF-22 and F-22, and it wouldnt be great at BVR so would only have TVC going for it, and being hard to use BVR against.
basically it could be very hard to deal with with radar missiles, and harder for IRST to get a lock on, but outranged and in some dogfight, outclassed though it is still a good dogfighter. would occupy very specific niche playstyle so wouldnt be too bad
I love the YF-23, and I don’t disagree with implementing the YF-22, but I think we’re going to have to see how the game handles AESA F-1X’s first.
YF-22 with AIM-9M’s and AIM-120A/B’s seems to me like a stop-gap to give the US a WVR fighter that can challenge the EFTs, Rafale, and Sukhois with an edge on all of them. I think it’s going to be hard to convince anyone that it should come based on the fact that especially for the Sukhois, having the WVR is the only real advantage it’s going to have until the Su-57 hopefully closes the gap meaningfully.
I’d like to think Gaijin will get serious, probably around the time they work on TVC to overhaul the Flanker and MiG FM’s, and fix the drag issues on the R-77-1. Assuming we are saying the R-77M is just a weapons-bay optimized R-77-1, it will need to happen. R-37M is kind of a meme a bit, and I don’t think two of them is enough when we’ll get AESA-powered SPAMRAAM in the same breath.
2 Likes
The Zhuhai airshow had T-series prototypes. They’re not production Sukhois.
And a lot of people forget the F-22 isn’t some single construction cast-airframe or something. See below:
2 Likes
true, which is why i said something like the F-2 MUST come before the F-22 or YF-22
YF-23 wont be as good WVR as YF-22 so it is far more reasonable
what it does have going for it is an absolutely insane supercruise speed of mach 1.72
I was catching up a bit. F-2 is just an AESA F-16 essentially (yes Japan mains, I know they aren’t 100% the same).
WVR for the US, and even Western Europe is going to have a fair-handed struggle in game against the Su-30SM, and it will just be tough to beat with the Su-30SM2 and Su-35S.
1 Like
J-20 might be placing more emphasis on BVR, but that doesn’t mean it’s bad in a WVR scenario.
Chinese J-20 pilots say maneuverability is comparable to the J-10, and even better than the J-10 at supersonic speeds.
1 Like
That is the key thing I think
If I’m not mistaken, didn’t they remove the grid fins for the R-77M and go back to conventional control surfaces, those grid fins are I believe the cause of the drag issue so the R-77M should work fine which means the SU-57 won’t be bad and instead could be quite good
1 Like
yep, they do have some crazy engines & TVC capability, compounded with R-73/R-73M (maybe) and HMS they will be very competitive in WVR
It also has a Two-pulse motor, it activates once it goes terminal.
2 Likes
By the time we get to Su-30SM2 and Su-35S, I doubt Gaijin won’t have released the R-73M, probably because the need for AIM-9X to keep things somewhat competitive will be unavoidable. Su-57 also, btw, can use the R-74M, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see the IZ-300/K-30.
Love that, I’m pretty sure the Python 5 does the same thing, improves terminal maneuverability a bunch and makes it near impossible to avoid at the last second
Also, we have the Streak Eagle skin on the F-15A, but no one even mentions that all of it’s records were broken by this bad boy, and we still don’t have a skin for it.
This has been a P-42 PSA.
Well what actually happened with that is less surprising than what you are stating.
Around 2018 Lockheed made the proposal to help Japan build an 6th gen fighter with F-22 technology. Japan would be able to take 50% or more share in production and development. At the end though like sales of the F-22 to Australia it was denied by congress to keep it’s technology secret.
I’m not too well-versed with this, but weren’t there rumors that Northrop Grumman also offered a design based on the YF-23 for Japan?
2 Likes
They did, I am not too familiar with it but I believe it was joint development with the YF-23 as a base similar to F-2 (based on Falcon SX-3).
The Lockheed proposal was an off the shelf design, with options for Japanese engines and possibly weapon integration.
I think in general TVC isn’t going to be that impactful outside of 1 vs 1 dueling which is very rare as is. Even in ground RB you can just run back to your airfield to avoid a 1 vs 1
Christ, we’re getting a YF23AJ in 2027 aren’t we