Let me put it this way, either:
or
i doubt YF-22 or 23 would even be justified top tier by the time their added
YF-22 fired both aim9 and aim120, probably A since it happened in early 90’s
YF-23 didnt fire any missiles but could
And they shouldn’t add the YF anything, the US doesn’t need experimental prototypes like that
? they are cool jets and valid for addition so why not
The way I see it is:
F-22 is going to be the best blend of stealth and supermaneuverability for the US.
F-35 is going to be the better multirole with some stealth assistance for the US/Israel/Western Europe.
EFT and Rafale will be great fighters, but won’t really get the same benefits from stealth that the F-22 will give the US. They’ll be better than anything Russia has now, and depending on how they model it, the Su-33. The Su-30SM will swing supermaneuverability back into the favor of Russia, which will keep that dominance with it’s next set of planes until the F-22.
Su-35S and Su-30SM2 will basically have the same capabilities as each other, and neither will have any help with stealth. Outside of the F-22, they will be the dominant dogfighter against everything else. With the help of Irbis-E and R-77-1’s, they’ll hopefully be able to stay somewhat competitive in BVR (until F-22, F-35, and J-20).
Su-57 will finally close the gap in stealth to the point that it will be competitive with the F-35, and speculation about versing the F-22 is beyond me, but it will probably mimic the Su-35S and Su-30SM2’s struggle versus the EFTs, Rafales, and AESA F-1X’s. You’ll get locks, you’ll get launches, but you’ll probably have to close the gap enough to lock that you’ll still be hugging the ground for most of the match. In WVR, I think the Su-57 will outperform the F-22, but that’s hard to speculate fully. The new Su-57M is switching to 2D TVC, and so I have no idea how that’s going to go, but first gen Su-57’s should be a very close match up.
The different J-11 variants will have better radar’s and BVR missiles than their Soviet/Russian counterparts, and they may keep the US on their toes in BVR throughout the upgrades. I don’t know J-10’s well enough, but the current J-10 is a WVR beast, so it’s probably going to remain that way. Don’t know anything about the J-20, but it’s got better stealth than the Su-57, and comparable stealth to the F-35. J-20 has seemed to struggle at lower speeds compared to the F-22, I’m not sure what that means for it versus the Su-57 and others.
I think you answered that one yourself
well, YF-22 could come 100% , but considering yak-141 and F-16AJ exists in game, letting YF-23 have the missiles it was built with in mind is pretty reasonable
YF-23 wouldnt have a gun either
I can actually imagine the 5th gens being kind of long-range specialist aircraft, in the furball they’re nothing special really but up at altitude keeping to BVR range they’ll be a menace, and in that sense the SU-57 is going to suck unless it gets the R-37
That and F-22 is better than the F-35, would much rather have the F-22.
The YF-22 doesn’t need to come, the F-22 would be just fine.
The YF-23 is a stretch, but it is possible given other prototypes and, in that vein, I would love to see the F-15 STOL/MTD
I agree but trying to make that point has been like headbutting a brick wall
Wasn’t this the T-50-2?
there is a pretty significant jump in capabilities between YF-22 and F-22, and it wouldnt be great at BVR so would only have TVC going for it, and being hard to use BVR against.
basically it could be very hard to deal with with radar missiles, and harder for IRST to get a lock on, but outranged and in some dogfight, outclassed though it is still a good dogfighter. would occupy very specific niche playstyle so wouldnt be too bad
I love the YF-23, and I don’t disagree with implementing the YF-22, but I think we’re going to have to see how the game handles AESA F-1X’s first.
YF-22 with AIM-9M’s and AIM-120A/B’s seems to me like a stop-gap to give the US a WVR fighter that can challenge the EFTs, Rafale, and Sukhois with an edge on all of them. I think it’s going to be hard to convince anyone that it should come based on the fact that especially for the Sukhois, having the WVR is the only real advantage it’s going to have until the Su-57 hopefully closes the gap meaningfully.
I’d like to think Gaijin will get serious, probably around the time they work on TVC to overhaul the Flanker and MiG FM’s, and fix the drag issues on the R-77-1. Assuming we are saying the R-77M is just a weapons-bay optimized R-77-1, it will need to happen. R-37M is kind of a meme a bit, and I don’t think two of them is enough when we’ll get AESA-powered SPAMRAAM in the same breath.
The Zhuhai airshow had T-series prototypes. They’re not production Sukhois.
And a lot of people forget the F-22 isn’t some single construction cast-airframe or something. See below:
true, which is why i said something like the F-2 MUST come before the F-22 or YF-22
YF-23 wont be as good WVR as YF-22 so it is far more reasonable
what it does have going for it is an absolutely insane supercruise speed of mach 1.72
I was catching up a bit. F-2 is just an AESA F-16 essentially (yes Japan mains, I know they aren’t 100% the same).
WVR for the US, and even Western Europe is going to have a fair-handed struggle in game against the Su-30SM, and it will just be tough to beat with the Su-30SM2 and Su-35S.
J-20 might be placing more emphasis on BVR, but that doesn’t mean it’s bad in a WVR scenario.
Chinese J-20 pilots say maneuverability is comparable to the J-10, and even better than the J-10 at supersonic speeds.
That is the key thing I think
If I’m not mistaken, didn’t they remove the grid fins for the R-77M and go back to conventional control surfaces, those grid fins are I believe the cause of the drag issue so the R-77M should work fine which means the SU-57 won’t be bad and instead could be quite good
