The ADV was pretty much always intended to be a quick, and most importantly cheap (in the 70s the MoD was basically broke due to basicly everything needing replacing, tanks, planes, frigates, you name it they needed it) stop gap interceptor while a better fighter was developed in the background, as the Phantoms and Lightnings where’s starting to show their age, and weren’t considered good enough to intercept supersonic soviet bombers over the north sea, both in loiter time and ability to find the things (both the Phantoms and Lightnings relied on extensively on ground controllers), so the ADV was “rushed” out (lets ignore the development issues lmao).
It was rather good in that role as a bomber hunter, about double the combat range of the F-14, while having a similar detection ranges of a bomber sized target. Also the 80% parts commonality with the IDS was extremely appealing to the cash strapped MoD.
At least it’s better than a Sea Vixen
1 Like
I agree with this too. And it’s probably too hopeful that they’d figure out a way to do TVC, let alone properly, when they can’t even fix the FM’s for the Sukhois.
I guess best hope now is the Su-33 with a new flight model is somewhat competitive, especially if they give it the trialed Bars radar it could theoretically equip.
It just so happens that range is the most important factor when facing Pantsirs
wrong, maneuverability is because those missiles especially at range are easy to dodge.
The F-16C and 15E do not struggle avoiding them. Trying to out range them just doesn’t work even for the SM3
Except it does when your only SPAA is an ADATS
Honestly from the sounds of it the best solution that can be implemented right now, is putting Russia on both teams, or at the very least not grouping nations together so consistently, at least until some AA/CAS parity can be restored
The ADATS lacks any capability to counter the Su-25SM3 outside of being behind cover.
It lacks smoke (only having ESS, which the Kh-38 can see through)
It only tracks with an optical lock, not radar, so it cannot track a Kh-38 until it’s too late
1 Like
It’s not, the most important factors are Defensive aids (MAW, good RWR), agility and quantity, if you know where and when the pantsir will attempt to engage from, then you can saturate the area with a weapon like the Maverick or GBU-39, forcing them to move and buying you position. Having a missile with long range is nice but if you are downed before reaching an envelope where it’s effective because you don’t know where the Pantsir is, then you have an issue
let me steer you back in the right direction here… The ADATS was never in the discussion… we were talking about the Pantsir… and I stated that not even the SM3 can reliably outrange the Pantsir… I have NO IDEA why you brought up the ADATS
US victim complex no doubt
No, I was originally saying the Pantsir allowed only one side to do CAS
The ADATS is insufficient to take out Russian CAS, and the Pantsir can simply shoot down American CAP/anti-CAS. Which is what I am getting at by bringing it into the discussion
2 Likes
except it cant “simply” do that, a competent jet shouldn’t be phased by a pantsir
1 Like
If not putting RU on both teams (as there is valid criticism of civil war MM), at least block GER/SWE/RU from being allowed on the same team. Two of these together? Fine. But you can’t put the three best ground lineups together.
When you talk some of these systems they look cool and all, but the data link is what sells it.
For example, the IZ-305 (LMUR) is a really cool missile. But it’s effectively a KH-29T, and if I can’t launch it from without LOS and have a magical drone in the sky to “guide it in for me” I can’t get the extra 5-10km range out of it, and it’s only good for 14.5km.
imma be honest once the strike eagles and vipers take down the first pantsirs, its game over for the enemy team if we have 2 competent ground players and maybe 2-3 competent CAS players
1 Like
If we’re getting the Su-33, it should have it too, it’s still going to be a one turn gambler. Nothing obtrusive in WVR without TVC.
how much top tier do you play?
This is every game of top tier air RB, US on both sides all the time.
But I don’t mean as a permanent fix, just until new AA can be introduced.
Also, weirdly Sweden’s win rate is surprising low, not US, Britain, Israel low, but lower than the rest
1 Like
That’s an unrealistic expectation when Russian planes can comfortably sit in the immediate AO.
Let’s be fair and assume everyone knows what they are doing. Russian CAS can sit safely within the range of their friendly SPAA and outside the range of US SPAA (that is a range between ~10-16km from the battlefield).
The ADATS cannot reliably kill the Russian CAS, and the Russian CAS can simply multipath to the merge if the US player spawns CAP/anti-CAS.
And then, if they get to the merge, the Russian plane can simply pull up and bring the fight up in altitude so the Pantsir can kill them.
I’ve had this happen to me before. The enemy team was coordinating quite well and there was nothing I could do about it.
3 Likes