I’m not hiding anything, to make it 100% clear one more time so I am not being misrepresented.
The M829A2, is the best shell in the game fired out of a 120mm cannon, the L/55 is the best cannon in the game in terms of pen.
I made the point that the Abrams has a top notch round to make a point that it is not terrible nor indicative of a tank that is worse than it’s peers as to justify it’s poor wr, clear?
Still better reasoning than claiming ammo is better than other ammo when one is fired out of a longer cannon.
Yeah, and it would be worse if it would be fired by a rifled 120mm, hiding behind the gun to skip the current raw numbers in a videogame it’s an euphemism that doesn’t justify anything at all.
Okay, whatever.
Well, then by this logic the DM53 shell is simultaneously better and worse, so I can’t accept that interpretation.
You tell me which number is the highest:
I think it’s the second, but we’ll surely agree on it.
I never mentioned that M829a2 fired out of an L/44 had more pen than DM53 out of an L/55, so I’m not sure how this chart would prove I’m being disingenuous.
If I didn’t mention the L/55 in my initial post, you might have some legitimate criticism, but I did, so what’s the issue?
Is 724 larger than 716?
So it’s Germany’s fault to develop a new gun to improve their current round’s performance for their best vehicle instead of just saying that the US fell behind technologically gun-wise? Wicked line of thought you decided to hold. So the vehicle is worse in at least a way.
Where does this data come from? It’s clear that IRL numbers are not representative of anything here, Gaijin has proved that time and time again.
No, but 752 is larger than 724. End of story.
If you can point me to where along this thread I said that the Abrams is superior to the widely agreed upon best tank in the game, then I’ll concede this entire debate.
Sure, if we cherry pick which DM53 value we use, because this:
Is also DM53.
I don’t want you to concede anything out of sheer will. If you genuinely think the M1A2 and onwards tanks are almost second to none and a worthy competitor to Leopards, then this debate holds no use.
And by how you refer to a certain playerbase treating them close to animals or lepers, i think it’s the case.
If you’d give me a box filled with half of DM53 (50% fired with L/55s and 50% with L/44s) cards and M829A2s, i’d wish to get ANY DM53 all day. It’s mostly just a 7mm of disadvantage for a possible increase of +30mm
By Leopards I’m assuming you mean the 2a7v and 122s, feel free to correct me if there are more Leopards you are referring to.
If you recall, your initial grievance with my points was as follows
So I’d like you to pull up where specifically you believe I made the claim that the Abrams is superior to these vehicles, because I remember making no such claim in this thread.
I reiterate, that the claim I’m making is that US winrates are low because of poor team performance, citing the strength of the Abrams, fullness of the lineups, and of course powerful CAS options, I do not recall bringing up the Leopards, outside of clarifying in my post that the L/55’s DM53 has a higher pen than the L/44’s M829m2, only due to the difference in gun performance.
5s M829A2 > 6s DM53
Don’t know if that 30mm+ increase is angled pen or at distances not shown on your screenshots, but the highest difference in your screenshots is 23mm and it only gets smaller over further ranges.
Depends which Leopards.
2A7/122 >>>>> SEPv1(/Type 10s) >> Leopard 2A5-2A6 imo
The difference of 30mm is between each fired DM53.
I can sorta agree with this. The issue is, there’s at least four 122 spawns for Sweden, and only one 2A7 for Germany/Italy, and one Type10 and SEPv1. Then the SEPv2 is a burden, and the M1A2 has awful thermals. If Gaijin could at least make the ERA set removable it’ll at least become versatile enough as the SEPv1.
Ah yes , thread about not blaming US WR on player skill but when you try to prove that player skill does matter we got actual breathing slab of meat come in to say that stats doesn’t prove anything and it slowly turn into why Abram le bad and Gaijin is a russian company with clear russian favouritism with some other country being brought in to prove that Abram is the worst tank ever made and Gaijin is a Anti Nato company
Not superior, yet equal —not necessarily in this thread—, which still is a wild stretch.
And that is an opinion that i may agree with, yet it’s not the only explanation, and exposing it as such without even guessing what the vehicles may be missing is a form of gatekeep and siding with the usual apologists.
Again, no clue where this is coming from, but I’ll give a take using only US, Germany, and I suppose Japan in a vacuum.
The 2a7v and 122s, after significant testing on my end, are the best MBTS in the game although there is a gap between the 2a7s and the 122s, the next rung down you have your SEP Abrams, and Type 10s, I would say these are extremely close to the 122s due to having superior rounds and mobility, then after that it’s all your 11.7 Abrams tanks, and the 2a6, then below that the 2a5/2PL/M1a1, then at the bottom of the tanks that can see top tier the M1IP.