By Leopards I’m assuming you mean the 2a7v and 122s, feel free to correct me if there are more Leopards you are referring to.
If you recall, your initial grievance with my points was as follows
So I’d like you to pull up where specifically you believe I made the claim that the Abrams is superior to these vehicles, because I remember making no such claim in this thread.
I reiterate, that the claim I’m making is that US winrates are low because of poor team performance, citing the strength of the Abrams, fullness of the lineups, and of course powerful CAS options, I do not recall bringing up the Leopards, outside of clarifying in my post that the L/55’s DM53 has a higher pen than the L/44’s M829m2, only due to the difference in gun performance.
Don’t know if that 30mm+ increase is angled pen or at distances not shown on your screenshots, but the highest difference in your screenshots is 23mm and it only gets smaller over further ranges.
The difference of 30mm is between each fired DM53.
I can sorta agree with this. The issue is, there’s at least four 122 spawns for Sweden, and only one 2A7 for Germany/Italy, and one Type10 and SEPv1. Then the SEPv2 is a burden, and the M1A2 has awful thermals. If Gaijin could at least make the ERA set removable it’ll at least become versatile enough as the SEPv1.
Ah yes , thread about not blaming US WR on player skill but when you try to prove that player skill does matter we got actual breathing slab of meat come in to say that stats doesn’t prove anything and it slowly turn into why Abram le bad and Gaijin is a russian company with clear russian favouritism with some other country being brought in to prove that Abram is the worst tank ever made and Gaijin is a Anti Nato company
Not superior, yet equal —not necessarily in this thread—, which still is a wild stretch.
And that is an opinion that i may agree with, yet it’s not the only explanation, and exposing it as such without even guessing what the vehicles may be missing is a form of gatekeep and siding with the usual apologists.
Again, no clue where this is coming from, but I’ll give a take using only US, Germany, and I suppose Japan in a vacuum.
The 2a7v and 122s, after significant testing on my end, are the best MBTS in the game although there is a gap between the 2a7s and the 122s, the next rung down you have your SEP Abrams, and Type 10s, I would say these are extremely close to the 122s due to having superior rounds and mobility, then after that it’s all your 11.7 Abrams tanks, and the 2a6, then below that the 2a5/2PL/M1a1, then at the bottom of the tanks that can see top tier the M1IP.
It’s not mine. Despite the fact that i argue with you siding in favor of the vehicle, i already have two other nations at ground top tier, and many grinded to air top tier, including GB, France, Japan and —soon enough— Israel. I’m not the average main to be portrayed because i’m signaling its weaknesses.
What is there to correct? When somebody says your in this context I am not referring to “you” specifically, but at that point we would be splitting hairs over grammar, and I’m not getting into that.
Bulkhead armor, turret ring correction, Sepv2 ARAT modification. These three things alone, which have been in waiting for years, would improve performance and at the very least ease some headaches
Twice feels more of a uncomfortable vice. I’ll consider my strawmans from now on, moreso considering how no brainer was for you to give a like to a lazy strawman :)
Gramatically it’s more mean like when somebody says “you know?” to nobody in particular, but I won’t get bogged down on it.
Either way, my points had nothing to do with the Leopards initially, and even if I don’t think the gap between the “armored leopards” and the next best tanks is that big, I can’t deny it exists, I’m really only trying to point out the inconsistencies in the idea that US teams are not suffering from an overload of low skill low level premium players, while they’re suffering the worst I did point out a similar trend you can find in Russia too, and while I don’t think they’re the beast of a tech tree they were 2020-early 2023, they definitely aren’t justified in having the 2nd worst WR at top tier based on their vehicle comp, notice that China has a better winrate than both while having one single 11.0 prem, with Britain also having a better winrate than both of said nations too and low player count of OES users, I brought out those examples in particular because I consider them to be the Tech Trees most in need of help and I don’t think it’s especially controversial to say that to drive home the point that Prem spammers are the issue.
Idk if I proposed my solution in this thread, but I say get rid of Nation based mm for RB, it worked to balance air rb fairly well (kinda).
Mobility wise the 122s are pretty close to the M1A2 and SEPv1 in terms of mobility though.
Honestly the SEPv1 only as a decisive advantage in firepower over the 122, which is also only really due to the reload. Above 590mm pen most rounds aim for the same weakspots anyway, so the ~30-40mm extra pen is mostly niche.
I wouldn’t say they are extremely close. The performance gap between the 122 and every other MBT besides the 2A7 is pretty big.
The Click-Bait/RDF argument can’t stand forever. Many of those low skill-level players who were the influx of the bad winrates either moved on from the game, bought another premium, or basically improved. You expect me to believe this will be the argument forever? I don’t think so. Something is wrong beyond that, otherwise if the US is soo good as y’all said, it would’ve reached at the very least the 50ish area, not the mid higher 40ish.
Once we agree that the gap exists, really it comes down to how much each player values certain elements in a tank, personally, I’d say that a small mobility advantage in top tier is the difference between holding a spot and being the one pushing that spot, which for my playstyle, is huge.
Well, new players do buy the clickbait, now RDF/LT, Wolfpack, KVT, and the sales seem to be doing well, and those tanks are spammed frequently, especially during sales, and the data I’ve found is the higher the number of premiums that are spammed per-nation at top tier, the lower the nation’s WR. Plus, well, I looked at the hard stats on the Abrams, it is definitely one of the better picks for top tier.
I just know enough about the 122s that they are so good that having a 1.5-2.0 K/D in them is pretty much the bottom value of what I would consider decent player performance in them. Let along good player performance.
Sure the Abrams might be 0.1 second faster to said positions, but it will be 10x easier to be pushed off. I have 7 nations at 12.0 now, so I have played enough with and against the M1A2s.