I know devs hate japan but I am too frustrated by how it plays to not do anything. And it is the only SPAA japan have for top tier, I don’t think it’s hard to work once on last vehicle tech tree have.
I think everyone know how bad it is, type93 post on old forum have about 62 pages of complains out of 62 pages in total. And numerous bug reports. But it never got better.
So why don’t we gather everything we have in 1 post, make it easy to understand and send it as some kind of suggestion\bug report from community, not just 1 player rant, maybe that way we will have a chance.
I know we don’t have a lot of documents, but that is not a reason to make vehicle horrible just because you can. It is reasonable to give some nerfs to vehicle as a compensation for advantages. But it is not reasonable to give every single possible nerf you can imagine to a one vehicle.
Maybe I will edit this post with everything collected, maybe in the end separate post will be made.
So I will start with problems I’ve met playing this vehicle:
-Homing AI is stupid, sometimes it just farts and don’t want to follow anything or do it extremely bad, while stinger it was supposed to be made of feels much more reliable, why not just copy-paste it into type91?
-Tracking time less then stinger it replaced irl, how did we get this?
-Minimal vertical angle is 10-15 degrees highter then it can be, missile rack can be parallel to the body irl. From what I’ve found it seems like it was made because of some kind of techincal issues with sight, but aim system changed a lot from when it was done, maybe its possible to fix it now. It gives a lot of paint and historically inaccurate.
-4 second delay between each shot with such weak missile and lock-on range is too much, I can’t count how many times I died from jets and helis tanking first shot and had no time to make second one.
-Very often targets are either too far or too close. You can’t do anything to helis with ATGMs because they are out of your range. You can’t kill diving helis with unguided rocket because they get out of trees under 1km range where type91 almost can’t turn(and 99% chance you won’t kill them with 1 shot even if you sniped them with your unguided rocket). Shoot training videos shows missile can turn half second from the launch.
-missile have such a bad pull and tracking time it almost impossible to shoot jets if they have eyes, even slightest turn will save them from type91. Type 93 need G pull buff or smokeless type91kai(which btw got passed as suggestion long time ago)
-missfire bug swapped with just can’t launch missile visual, its a nice touch but I still can’t shoot jets 3km away going straight on me
-if you spend all missiles reload is so long most of the time match ends sooner then you get new ammo ready to fire. Unless you waste missiles on 100% miss which is stupid. Type93 need to get ammo much faster and\or be able reload each missile separately
-junky ir guidance with immunity to flares leads to junky missile behaviour. It is literally THE vehicle that must have properly implemented visual seeker. Type91 is the first missile in the world that used TV guidance. It is the main feature of missile. And it is not in the game. Range based hard-coded lock-on is easy to implement, will save from junky lock on flares and etc and will make missile much more historically accurate that it is right now.
-it is impossible to fight helis in top tier because of DIRCM and stalinum armor. You just see invincible enemy that is coming to kill you and you can’t do a thing. Even if you manage to shoot it is almost impossible to shoot it down from front.
To simplify all above and maybe add stuff from replies if there will be any in result we have:
Homing AI need adjustments
Tracking time artificially nerfed
vertical angle incorrect
delay between shots is too long
effective combat range need adjustments
missile G pull\damage\visibility need adjustments
famous missfire bug in some form still here(maybe its time to remake it from scratch?)
reload time too long
missile aim system need propper implementation
I would like to hear if you have anything to add or adjust.
Lets make vehicle better then google’s first prediction when you search for “war thunder type93”
In the 1990’s, 20G for MANPADS for standard. So until gaijin finds info the Type 91 missile should get 20G
Furthermore gaijin implemented it as Infra-Red guided missile when it actually used visual image homing (same type as AGM-65 maverick) so the missile should be outright ignoring flares
Also, as a side note… Is it just me that feels as though the FIM-92K in particular, or even just the normal FIM-92, does better overall in game than the Type 91’s missile, even with the Type 91 being a equivilent or newer model? I know that the FIM-92’s seem more consistent for 4-5km range locks on non-afterburning jets compared to the Type 91, especially when in winter maps, and they also seem to be better in tracking at times as well.
Anyone have any reason for why this may be the case, or any proof to back it up? I know the tracking should be roughly similar but it just doesn’t feel there.
I am sure type91 have completely different homing AI and made MUCH worse then original. Missile is a lot more restricted in terms of range and turns. Type91 acts at least weird
It’s not the homing AI that’s the issue as much as the fact the lock range feels like it’s less, but as far as turning at least they, uuuuusally are fairly on par?
I don’t know if gaijin is watching here, but when are you going to change the guidance system of the Type 91 to infrared guidance as an image guidance and aid? I think it could be balanced by reducing the missile lock distance when it rains or at night instead.
The problem is in game, winter maps cut the Type 91’s seeker range down from the already 3-4km range on non-afterburning aircraft, and 2.5km on helis if you’re lucky, down to 3km or less on non-afterburning aircraft, and usually less than 1.5km on heli’s. While it seems other manpads have this issue, the Type 91 seems to struggle from it more than most due to it’s already stunted lock range without any real cause.
As for the seeker, I don’t necessarily see that coming around too soon at the rate things are going, but who knows. Maybe they’ll announced the new top tier Japanese SAM as well as the Type 91 Kai missile which will bring the performance up of the Type 93 but… I wouldn’t be holding my breath on it.
The funny part missile shouldn’t be affected by temperature at all in the first place becuase visual seeker is a main guidance system and IR for support it
The reasoning I imagine it’s like that is because of the visible and infrared light scattering off the snow creating a more hostile environment to the seeker for tracking but, I haven’t the foggiest how realistic that is.
I do know that the cold air would cool the engine a bit more, but it would also make a far larger thermal difference on a camera as well.
“Gaijin: Enjoy your brand new top tier SPAA with flarable IR missiles 11.3br”
They should give 10.something br type81 and rework type93 for pre top-tier with its real stats
We know for sure that mmpm is 3.9t vehicle + 2.7t launcher, chasis probably reinforced to hold heavier(then type91) missiles so 4.15t with AA turret type93 can be true
1 no, only with external radar data link system “DADS”, no irst on its own
2 yes, visual seeker is main system and IR for support, but soviet bias bs
3 yes, 5km is effective combat range, target lock should be higher
4 yesnt, thats aa “balancing” problem, it should deal more damage but damage models sucks and so does any IR spaa
5 there was suggestion for kai variant that passed to devs but never implemented because its 9.0(9.3 now)
6 yesnt, all AA missiles for some extremely stupid reason at least twice less maneuverable then they should be(except soviet strela). But start up time is less for type93 - it can pull right from the start
7 this shit is still in game since type93 release, only difference now you don’t get phantom shots - just can’t fire
