If you have the provable evidence to show that in a way they will believe and trust, submit the forms like others have tried and see if they will change their minds
If someone could please explain to me how a missile that is smaller in diameter, and lighter, can have better G-loading, significantly better top speed, better range, and roughly the same explosive compared to the currently gimped Type 91 missile that I would love to know the answer.
Also small edit here- on the wiki War thunder wiki page, they have the max speed of the 9M39 as 1.7 Mach, which is only 583m/s or so, which is grossly under the stat card.
If you mean “how type91 can have better G-loading then stinger” - it can be done by more modern controls, like stinger controls compared to strela or AAM-3 with unreleased BTT controls compared to other missiles.
I don’t know if it’s really is more maneuverable but I at least never seen stinger do something like cobra
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Well the Type 91 was made as a more modern replacement to the Stinger missile, which means it should in theory have the same or better G-loading capacity, however in game, it has a worse lock range than the stringers, worse range, and worse g-loading. In fact, it is so far the only proper manpad that hasn’t been buffed as far as G-Load goes except for maybe the Chinese MANPAD and the brand new Russian one which only recently was released.
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I’d say the reason they did is because they, after years of insisting the Type 81 required multiple vehicles, finally caved in to work on it. However, before actually having done the necessary reasearch, they put out an official statement saying it needed a new mechanic of external FCS.
After finding out it could work on its own they decided to just skip that mechanic and instead released it with the Strelas optical guidance they likely had planned anyways.
Note how we got optical contrast guidance used on the Strela, rather than optical image guidance of the other two vehicles with the mechanic. It is clear this wasn’t designed after the Type 81.
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Gaijin despises Japan, that has been obvious to me for years. They will nerf anything Japanese at the very drop of the hat, without giving any consideration for surrounding circumstances.
Take, for instance, the recent nerfs of HO-155 30mm aircraft cannons, they have nerfed them into the floor so hard for very little reason that they are now borderline useless. Their HE doesn’t even fuze on plane skin.
And yet, they have left the planes at the BRs they have been at with useful guns. The Ki-84 Hei is at 7.7 in arcade, despite now having borderline nonfunctioning weaponry.
If you spent at least a hour into research you would know that it manages to surpass it only when half of western tech capabilities are removed or negated by game mechanics like situational awareness(which is one of the most important parts of the combat btw)
That’s his entire joke- you don’t really have to look all too deeply at it with how things are in game. Don’t get me wrong, the Ruskies made from cracked things but, it wasn’t just a one sided ‘this is better’ situation that we’re seeing unfortunately.
The 9M39 was not a bad missile- however, the fact the Type 91 for example was built on the Stinger which was, if memory serves, a little newer than the 9M39 to start with, and was an improvement on that released nearly a decade later and is just worse… It’s really just something else.
In game wise, the 91 was directly created from the ATAS, they were identical back when it first arrived.
IRL it is a direct development and should at a minimum be very close if not identical in kinematic performance in regards to maneuverability to the ATAS as is, aka the FIM-92C.
In a sense, the 91 is the stinger’s more efficient sister, with superior weight usage and superior (in regard to the earlier FIM makes) internal hardware.
Right now too the 9m39 is just styling on both by a huge margin which is hilarious.
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I’ve seen too many soviet mains and russian forum messages, I am sorry but I really struggle to see such comments as a joke now
Why is it impossible for me to lock on to this heli at 5km?
But when a friendly plane comes by I instantly lock on to it at over 5km.
The Type 81 will get f’d even before I unlock it so were stuck with this.
Should be able to lock on them helis that high up with a clear sky with photocontrast…not sure why it wont lock…
In the test videos of the Type 93/Type 81, they used small drones to test their missiles…compared to these drones…these jets and helis are huge…idk why Gaijin cant figure this out…
Yeah… it’s remarkable how many things in this game ‘should’ work but for some reason do not work, spend a full minute trying to get a lock with a clear line of sight, clear blue skies and it’s out in the open, but the jet attacked the heli and I instantly got a lock on the friendly jet instead.
I have nothing but bad experiences in the Type 93, it constantly fails to lock at things far away and the missiles are useless up close.
Ka -50 just hovering over the spawn, I hit it once but fails to do any worthwhile damage because imagine that, then unable to hit it again because it’s too close.
Replay not working properly either of course, doesn’t show the lock, doesn’t show the missiles, just Warthunder things.
Damaged the hull, but obviously that has zero impact on anything.
Type 91 test
I think it is MQM-74C (CHUKAR II) and KD2R based on the shape of the target plane. The target plane emits smoke every 1 km. it emits smoke 3 times so it is at least 3 km away. Seeing the accuracy of hitting a smaller target than a helicopter at that distance, and even in cloudy conditions, how the performance of the Type 91 missile in the game has been compromised. It’s also strange that it can’t lock because it can fire even when the background is cloudy.
Being as you can see the explosion and then hear the sound of detonation, assuming this is near sea-level the target was hit roughly 2.5km away from the camera position at the very least in the first test firing they demonstrate at 1:13.
In the second successful interception at 4:41 it appears to be more around 3.5km based on the sound delay from explosion to sound return.
Third successful interception at 5:34 appears to be a similar sound delay and a similar 3.5km
In the fourth successful interception at 6:31 the sound delay is longer, and is likely closer to 4.5km or so from the camera based on that delay. However, there was also no smoke when the explosion had happened, either pointing towards longer guidance after the rocket burned out, or instead the Type 91 Kai being used with the smokeless motor instead.
Fifth interception at 8:20 sounds closer to 2.5-3km range.
Sixth interception at 9:07 sounds close to 3.5km again
Seventh interception at 9:48 sounds closer to 3km
In the eighth interception at ~10:53 the range opened up slightly to 3.5-4km
The last attempted interception gives a great demonstration of the one turn performance at the very least, though it’s hard to say how hard it is really pulling and if it could then turn and pull the opposing direction easily without seeing it properly.
As far as the reason why in game the lock gets funny with clouds, is because it operates as a photo-contrast seeker, and thus because the clouds would look darker due to the water vapor blocking the light, it degrades the contrast resolution between the target, which is supposed to be dark, and the surrounding area.
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They snuck in detailed damage model for Type 93 for the update. Rip no armor best armor. Missiles in the DM are still stingers and not type 91 missiles Bug report here.
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Oh and they broke it, for some reason it’s always tilted back so the front wheels aren’t on the ground. Bug report here.
Was it ever specified if the Type-91 used the FIM-92A or -92B’s seeker as a base since I’ve found the following patent for the POST seeker (MIM-72G & FIM-92B and later)
Of which I’m working on a report that would qualify missiles using the POST seeker for the Contrast Seeker Lock-on range extension mechanic.
relevant excerpt from the patent.
The invention resolves the problems of the prior art by a dual mode seeker having point detection in a rosette or spiral scan. Signal processing electronics continuously select the most advantageous mode of operation from the signals of a dual detector and operate within this mode to home the missile.
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The missile control section 16, warhead 20, motor section 22 and tail section 24 do not constitute a part of the present invention and therefore details of their construction and function are not deemed necessary except for their operating which is directly related to the seeker head 12 and electronics section 14. If additional information is required in these areas, particularly the control section 16, it can be found in U.S. Ser. Nos. 395,112 and 397,674 both assigned to the same assignee as this application[ Hughes Missile Systems Co ]
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The signal information derived from the IR and UV channels is fed to a logic selector 148 which selects the proper mode for target tracking. The signal pulse information from either the IR channel or the UV channel is differentiated
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In operation, a pulse is generated by PbS detector 62’ and by Si detector 62" every time the instantaneous field of view is scanned over a target. The repetition rate of these pulses may vary, for example, from 10 pulses per second to 200 pulses per second. The target information generated by the detectors is then amplified by the pulse amplifiers 138, 138’. The amplified pulses are then coupled to the threshold detectors 140, 140’ which are set to trigger at a level just below the peak signal generated by the target. The peak detectors measure the amplitude of the highest contrasting object within the field of view and the resulting peak levels are used to set the thresholds of the threshold detectors. The information from the threshold detectors is coupled to logic selector 148 which selects the proper mode for target tracking. The logic involved in the logic selector circuit is such that, if the signals from both the IR and UV channels are simultaneously present at its input, the IR signal will be preferred over the UV signal. However, should the IR signal vanish for a time longer than 0.25 second, the UV signal will be accepted.
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Accordingly, where a target may not be irradiating sufficient infrared energy to be engaged by the missile operating in its normal IR mode, the target may be tracked by the UV mode.
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Preferably, the seeker will initially operate in the visual contrast mode until an adequate IR signal is available to home the missile. If a sufficiently IR radiating target is present, the seeker may select and receive in the IR mode.
Also happened to find this one for rolling airframe missiles.
That I’m not sure of, the only thing I was talking about was they are using the wrong model. Previously the missiles it fired were the stingers even though the type 91 missile had it’s own model in the files they just weren’t using it. I did a bug report on that a while back and it got fixed but the x-ray ones did not change. But yea I know nothing about the technical stuff, but it is crappy that every other IR sam’s missiles got better G pull except type 91.
From what I understand it’s neither. The Type 91 uses a CCD visual light imaging seeker, very different from what is found on a Stinger.
Though maybe the backup IR system has some influence from Stinger features, I doubt it would be completely based on it as at that point Japan already had experience in developing their own seeker systems.