Staghound Mk III

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                                Staghound Mk III

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Vehicle design and service history:

The story of the Boarhound armoured car begins in July of 1941, when the U.S. Army Ordnance issued a specification for a medium armoured car, in order to fulfil a request by the British Purchasing Commission which was currently looking for Armoured Cars for use in the war in North Africa. Because of this British requirements were a driving force in the armoured car’s design, including the requirement of at least two crew members in the turret, along with a radio in the turret so that it would be close to the vehicle commander.

The British were pleased with the 4-wheel drive design presented by Chevrolet and allocated the name Staghound to the T17E series with the intent of acquiring them for service in the British army. The British liaison officers were in contact with the Chevrolet engineer in charge of the project, and were happy to report they had influenced him sufficiently to produce something that met all their requirements. Due to this the British British Purchasing Commission “formally requested” the production of 300 vehicles in December of that year, with the US Army authorized production of 2,000 units in January of 1942. The British confirmed their order in March of 1942, and the Pilot was delivered to Aberdeen Proving Ground for testing. The testing showed flaws, but these were negligible and expected to be corrected, and the British confirmed their order contract along with a further 1,500 units.

Production began in earnest in October of 1942, though at this point the US Army had lost any interest in the multitude of armoured car projects then on the table, and in December of 1942 requested the cancellation of most of the designs in favour of a standardized smaller vehicle that would become the m8 greyhound. The British applied for the T17E1 production to be continued and successfully stopped the termination of production, so the armoured car could be provided under Lend-Lease. Because of this demand, 3,844 Staghounds were produced in total with the vast majority being delivered to the British.

Despite its nature as an export vehicle, the Staghound was of innovative design and incorporated quite a number of advanced features. The first was two rear-facing 6-cylinder engines equipt with automatic transmissions providing 4 forward and one reverse gear, that fed through an axel case to drive both axles. This configuration allowed two or four-wheel drive to be easily selected, and either engine could be shut down whilst in motion, and taken out of the drive train. This in combination with power steering made the driver’s job significantly easier, as steering and suspension components were directly attached to the hull, resulting in a smoother ride, as the structure was rigid enough to dispense with the need for a separate chassis.

The Staghound MK I was equipt with a three-man fully rotating turret, armed with a 37 mm M6 gun, a coaxial .30 cal M1919A4 Browning machine gun along with a 2-inch smoke mortar in a rotating turret. A second .30 cal M1919A4 Browning was mounted in a bow position in the hull, along with an additional .30 cal M1919 machine gun mounted on the top of the turret for anti-aircraft defence. The turret also possessed power traverse and featured a turret basket, though this limited the amount of internal crew stowage. The 37mm gun was also gyroscopically stabilized in the same manner as the start tanks in service at the time.

Unfortunately for all these merits, Staghound entered service too late for use in the North African Campaign where it was initially intended. This was not much of a setback for the vehicle though, as due to its combination of armour, range and main armament it was still deemed a useful asset for use in the British army in the light reconnaissance role. Because of this it saw its first operational service in Italy, where its small size was found to be advantageous for navigating narrow roads too tight for larger units to traverse. This trend would repeat into the streets of Europe, where the Staghound saw service at the squadron and regimental headquarters level. Conditions for the staghound continued to improve, and the armoured car was used into 1944 in Italy along with taking part in the war in north-west Europe.

Even with this successful initial debut attempts were made to up gun the Staghound, firstly with the 3-inch howitzer on the Staghound MK II for close support, though the armoured car’s anti-tank potential was still lacking. Because of this in 1945 it was decided to fit some vehicles with turrets taken off now obsolete Crusader MK III tanks, which were becoming available in quantity due to the Crusader being superseded by Cromwell and Sherman tanks. This resulted in between 32 and 100 of the vehicles being upgraded to this standard out of an initial order of 300. The main difference between the MK III and other variants along with its new 6-pounder gun, was the removal of its bow machine gun, which received an armoured cap over the gun position. Staghounds modified to this standard would later be sold to the Danish and Lebanese after the end of the second world war, and would see service into the 1960s before being discarded for more modern vehicles.

Vehicle specification:

Mass 14 t

Length 17 ft 10 in (5.49 m)

Width 8 ft 10 in (2.69 m)

Height 7 ft 9 in (2.36 m)

Crew 5

Armor 9 to 44 mm

Main armament 1 × Ordnance QF 6-pounder

Secondary armament 1× .30 (7.62 mm) M1919 Browning machine guns
1 x coax besa

Engine 2 × GMC 270 rated at 97 hp (72 kW)

Power/weight 13.9 hp/tonne

Suspension wheels, 4 x 4

Operational range 450 miles (724 km)

Maximum speed 55 mph (89 km/h)

Additional historical photos:
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Sources:

6 Likes

+1, it’s a real big shame the Staghound is not in the TT yet

3 Likes

Huge +1 but with a small note - almost all Staghound Mk IIIs produced (including all the ones pictured in this post) used the 75mm instead of the 6pdr - this was swapped out of the Crusader turrets when they were installed on the Staghound.

This was because the HE ammo for the 75mm was much more valuable IRL than the moderately higher pen of the 6pdr - which is the same reason that later versions of the Cromwell also used the 75mm.

I mean it is just not in this configuration, we have the AA variant ingame

If you have a source that would be lovely, most reference to 75mm staghounds refers to later service in secondary nations, usually using AEC turrets.

All of your images are clearly 75mm QF guns. Tank mounted 6-Pdr’s didn’t receive the muzzle brake.

Also, very minor point. They are modified Crusader turrets, the Crusader turrets weren’t just slapped onto Staghounds.

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There’s new hatch arrangements, more periscopes, different internal arrangements, etc.

1 Like

That is a misconception, early 6 pounders lacked the muzzle break, but later war the mk 4/5 had said muzzle break, and it served as a counterweight, the big thing about the jump to the mk 5 was the muzzle break and increased barrel length.

  • Mk 2: first mass-production version. Shortened L/43 barrel was adopted due to the shortage of suitable manufacturing equipment.
  • Mk 3: tank version of Mk 2.
  • Mk 4: L/50 barrel, single baffle muzzle brake.
  • Mk 5: tank version of Mk 4.

The only thing the muzzle break shows is it was later production, 6 pounder Churchills are the same, the muzzle break starts appearing as manufacturing caught up with the long winded 6-pounder crisis as i call it, which spawned alot of the ww2 vehicles i have previously suggested.

1 Like

Only the Mk. 4 had a muzzle brake. The Mk. 5 had a counterweight.


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Churchill with 6-Pdr Mk. III, and Churchill with 6-Pdr Mk. V. No muzzle brake.

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Cromwell/Centaur/Cavalier with 6-Pdr Mk. III, and Cromwell with 6-Pdr Mk. V. No muzzle brake.


Mk. IV 6-Pdr. Intended for carriage mountings only.

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Seeing as you seem to know your stuff Jarms, can you tell me what the collar on the end of the Mk V is if it’s not a muzzle brake? Genuine question, and thank you for the clarity you have already provided.

I said it above. It’s a counterweight. Its sole use is to balance the gun. o7

1 Like

Ah thank you, I’d assumed the counterweight was at the other end of the gun assembly!

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Here is sources if you want it. Staghound Mk. III only received QF 75mm guns. I think you’re confusing Mk. V 75mm. It also only has 3 crew. As there’s only 2 in the turret and 1 in the hull, as the hull MG was removed (which you mentioned but didn’t put into the crew section).

To add on to the info Jarms has provided, the armament is listed as 75mm in several of the sources in your post (this one, this one, this one, and this one).

This extract is also from the first of the above sources:

Had a turret taken from an Crusader tank armed with Ordnance QF 6 pounder gun and 7.92 mm Besa coaxial machine gun. As the goal of the Staghond Mk.III was to allow greater firepower from high-explosive projectiles for infantry support or reconnaissance missions, the Ordnance QF 6 pounder gun was replaced by the Ordnance QF 75 mm gun on the production line, as the 75mm QF had a much more efficient HE projectile.

Finally, the below diagrams are from the same source (also available here, I’m not sure which is the origin). If you want a 6pdr armed Staghound then you’d be looking at the Mk III (early). However, I’m not 100% certain of the legitimacy of these diagrams, as I’ve personally never seen a primary source or photograph showing a 6pdr Staghound, you’d need to ask the guys who go digging in the archives I imagine.

2 Likes

Yeah, I’ve not seen any offical sources or photos of Staghound III’s with 6-Pdr’s.

Nate, the BESA coax is visible in pics but missing from the specs.

1 Like

my bad let me slot that in

1 Like

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Found some more clear photos. BTW you still need to update the first post by changing the gun to a QF 75mm

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While designed by the UK, the Stagound III never saw service with its Army. They found it unsatisfactory, as it had a 2-man turret.

All 50 Staghound IIIs produced in WW2 were given to two Canadian Armoured regiments, including 12th Manitoba Dragoons. I’ll make a Canadian suggestion post eventually, as a few folks are trying to build up a case for a Canadian Ground Forces Tree in War Thunder.

References:
Lucy, R. (2009). The Staghound in Canadian service. Service Publications.

As for the 6pdr vs 75mm debate, I’ve only ever seen one photo of the Staghound III without the single baffle muzzle brake of the OQF 75mm, and this was a colour photo post-war. So likely a restoration.

Edit: found the photo. It was a restoration of a Staghound III found in Quebec in 1980, done by Stew Robertson on MapleLeafUp.

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Yeah, that definitely screams museum restoration to simply have a completed vehicle. Doesn’t even look like a 6-Pdr barrel.

1 Like