could say same thing about the T58 and its hesh does that make it bad no you just machine gun down whatevers in front of you
both cannot frontally pen a 7.7 IS4M or 7.3 IS3 you know what can? the M51
if you shoot first your armor does not matter thats how ever variant of sherman is except for the 3.7s and lower
- you might be giving away your position to do that.
- the .30 cal don’t work on all obstacles
basing a vehicle’s BR on the ability to pen 1 or 2 specific tanks is not sound logic.
95% of the time the 400mm pen has no influence on the battle.
By this logic, armor does not matter at all, and why would anyone use a heavy, or even a medium?
WT is not 1 s 1. With 16 enemies on the field, having weak ALL AROUND armor also matters.
And with many of the maps it can get stuck on, there’s a good chance it runs into spaa or light tanks that have high ROF and can shred it easily. There is nothing special about the M51 that gives it a leg-up on shooting first.
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i forgot yeah i play premium one
T26E5 JAGTIGER TIGER 2H IS3 T32 T34(US) like 90% of super armored Heavy that are like 85% of the br range
cause against things without heat its OP
You don’t need 400mm pen to take on those vehicles - even from the front.
An M36B (BR 5.7) can pen most of them (not sure on the IS3…)
Should it’s BR be raised to 6.3+ ?
Sav m/43 (1946) BR=3.0 has 240mm pen. Let’s raise it to 5.0 since it can pen a Tiger.
I stand by my take that pen should not be the major factor that decides a vehicles BR.
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Sturmpanzer (1.0) can one hit Somua SM. Straight to 7.7
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almost like it has heat fs a criminally undertiered br and should be 6.0
and reason i say 6.0 is cause the ST-A1 and A2 are a bit faster and much lower profile and the M36 is open top
There isn’t a huge difference between 5.7 and 6.0 these days, and given HEAT(FS) does atrocious postpen damage, that isn’t the round most people bother using, anyways. Both the M36B2 and M-51 Super Sherman would be quite a bit higher in BR if HEATFS actually did real and consistent postpen damage.
except thats where your wrong if it had a normal 76MM it would be 5.7 the SOLE REASON ITS 6.3 IS HEAT FS
HEAT FS is a good round its better than solid shot and APCR and even beats APHE in a few aspects it guaranteed sets off ammo when hit and maintains all of its pen at range no matter the distance
These tanks aren’t hard to play and don’t do poorly
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HEAT and HEATFS are not good rounds, not even close. Their postpen is miserably low to the point that I’d rather try my luck with APCR some days. Primarily due to the whining from years ago of blind German/Russian heavy tank mains from a bygone age.
Specifically what was the final nail in its coffin was crying from the then-new IS-6 whales. The M46 mid-1.67 saw its M348 HEATFS shell correctly modeled to its 305mm penetration, and was being spammed out to counter the IS-6 hordes as well as the T-44/100, IS-3, and T-54-47s supporting them. Just one week later Gaijin obliterated every single HEAT and HEATFS in the entire goddamn game to “save the whales” so they can continue to “shoot the seals.”
And the ammo type has never been restoratively buffed back to CONSISTENT usability ever since.
This is why we have so much HEAT infesting 5.7+ BRs - it pens everything but is so frustratingly unreliable that most people don’t use it as a main round unless they have literally no other choice. It makes heavy tank life hell because their main selling point of armor is rendered irrelevant, yet those same low-postpen rounds frequently take 3+ shots to kill a single target. Thus the light tank firing HEAT instead sees someone else steal the kill or the heavy turn its turret and delete it because low postpen refused to take out the gunner, coaxial .50cal, or breech despite aiming there. Then the heavy tank remains miserable even IF they survive due to having a half-dead crew and punished reload speed for it. It’s misery for all sides involved, and only is solvable by restoratively buffing all HEAT rounds.
Furthermore, this same nerf is also why lower ranks are terrorized by Sherman 105s, SU-122s, Sav m/43 (1946s), Short 75mm Rapid-fire HEAT launchers in many nations, and lastly but not least the Ikv 103 with 400mm penetration on a cockroach-sized chassis with nearly 20 degrees gun depression and great mobility sits at 4.0!
The nerf is helping nobody and making a mess of everything. Why keep it?!
M51 kill rate is a good example of this.
For a tank that can “pen everything” its kill rate is quite poor.
Kills per Spawn = 0.74
Kills per Death = 0.88
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I bet if there was a way to track assists, its assist rate would be throigh the roof
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I cannot agree at all.
even against the huge ho-ri, I hit the right side of the casemate front, and killed commander/loader on the other side
These were both while playing M46 yesterday (same gun as M36 late), I have no complaints about its lethality.
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yeah id honestly say its got better spall than most solidshot rounds the only solid shot ive used thats better is just the british and french rounds like shot MK8
And then meanwhile I was recently playing both the German Bulldog with 76mm HEATFS and the Jpz 4-5 with 90mm HEATFS, which did the usually-expected “abysmally fuck-all” postpen.
So as far as I’m concerned those look like quite a substantial amount of luck with HEAT just “deciding to actually spall that day.”
What I want to see HEAT do is consistent postpen, akin to how solid AP currently operates on guns like the 17-pdr and 20-pdr. And frankly both APCR and APDS long deserve similar treatment. HESH should spray fragments in a much wider cone still (though the center of said cone would be perpendicular to the armor plate).
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76mm will naturally have much smaller post-pen. It is a very small shell.
never played it much so can’t comment, should be the same ammo as M47/Type 61 though