Yes. That this guy actually believes helis are superior to radar and IR AAs.
Please provide an evidence in form of video/link to serve replay with timestamps, so we can discuss it properly.
So get better.
You can, just get better.
They generally are. RADAR SPAAs around 8.0 do beat rocket rushing helicopters, but at 8.3 you get the first guided ATGM helicopters (Scout, Z-11W, Alloette) who can easily dispatch all non-proxy SPAAs by staying 2-2.5km out and jinking.
They in turn require the 9.0 Sgt York to counter them (VEAK used to as well, but no longer), and the first few IR SAMs (~9.3) can counter them if they wander too close.
These in turn are somewhat countered by the later Hind variants at 9.7 with their 5km range Shturms, who can pretty easily stay outside the effective range of the Sgt York and all IR based SAMs.
They are theoretically countered by the French Roland 1 and Swedish Lvrbv 701, however these vehicles are pretty rare and hard limited by other factors.
10.3 is where the balance swings completely out of whack, where several helicopters get Hellfires and lots of them. In return, they’re up against a couple Rolands with identical max range at best, but these were severely hurt by the missile changes and seriously struggle to hit targets outside ~5km in my experience. In a downtier, players are expected to counter Hellfires with IR SAMs with a ~2km average lock range. Very balanced.
There is then a massive gulf between 10.3 and 11.7, where few nations have any new SPAAs, and those that do have similarly limited range (Tan Sam, OTOMATIC). The only exception is the Tunguska, which I haven’t played but does seem to be a half step up from the Rolands. Pity only one nation gets that step up though.
This is especially problematic because at 11.0 we get the infamous Ka-50, with 12 anti-everything Vikirs with excellent performance, and it’s one the one nation that gets an upgrade from 10.3s when it gets downtiered. Against Israel, Italy, China and Japan, who rely entirely on close range IR SAMs at this tier, it’s just cruel.
Things aren’t much better at 11.7 either. You do get quality SAMs across multiple nations, but not all of them, and helicopters get a new toy, fire and forget. Sure, the damage isn’t super consistent, but no other weapon system allows you to engage SPAA with this level of complete immunity. You can literally hover behind a ridge, pop up, fire your shot(s), and duck back down long before any SAM can hit you. Even the Pantsir can’t counter this. And you can rearm as many times as you want with relative safety, SAMs are forced to wander into the map to get to cap point to rearm, if the cap points are even under their teams control.
You also get first spawn Starstreaks too, which admittedly does hurt both sides.
Ultimately, if we look at the best helicopters versus the best SPAAs at each tier, assuming equally skilled players on each side, the only tier where SPAA have a legitimate advantage over helicopters is probably 8.0, and 9.3. Also 10.7 for Russia and 9.0 for the US specifically. For all other tiers, it’s either too close to call, or it’s the helicopters with the advantage.
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A highly qualified post on the topic. Thanks for that.
And you actually have 95% of my full agreement, which can hardly be better when it comes to subjective impressions.
Overall, for my part, I sum it up by saying that there is hardly any real balance between AAs and helicopters. In some cases, helicopters have no chance and the same goes for AAs. The way you describe it goes back and forth. From BR to BR and uptier to downtier.
I only disagree with you in one case. On 11.7 to 12.7 you only have a chance against AAS if you currently have air superiority (i.e. playing with Russians) and they are overwhelmed.
You have zero chance against a Nato VT-1 (that’s what I play myself) or a Pantsir (that’s what I play against) if it has enough time to pay attention to helicopters. With FF rockets you have a chance of destroying them, but you will also get caught in the return. Not a good deal at 500SP vs 100SP. And if the AA gets the idea to even begin to hide, you’ll have to expose yourself high up to shoot at it. The more distance you want to keep, the more. 1300 m/s VT1 or 95YA6 is then 4 to 6 times as fast as the FF rockets PARS or Spike.
It almost sounds like I’m having a great cry. It is not so. My helicopters all have a KD of 1 or better (although my Tiger UHT soon destroyed more air targets than ground targets), although not only the AA hunts the helicopters, but in the lower tiers there is for an heli hardly any chance of self-defense against jets.
The WL ratio also shows that the selection does not weaken my team.
But to claim that with a properly positioned AA you will suffer from helicopters and their capabilities is simply not true.
The danger posed by jets is much greater. And that in all BRs.
I have limted experience with them, admittedly, but so long as the helicopter has a ridge outside 3-4km of the battlefield to use, I’ve found they can pop up, ripple fire a few Spikes/PARS off and duck back down before a missile can hit them. This works especially well if the ridge is large enough to change what location you’re popping up in, adding a whackamole element to the SPAA’s reaction time. Not all maps support this
Worst case scenario, you’re trading missiles with each other for a net zero return, but helicopters have a far easier time rearming than SPAA do (At least currently, this may change with the roadmap) and typically have far more missiles available to them, so it’s usually a net win for the helicopter in a war of attrition.
I would hold that at 8.3-9.3 (9.0 if the US in involved) and 10.3, helicopters have a large enough advantage to be a threat regardless of AA if played intelligently.
At other BRs it’s closer, but at the end of the day, relying on your team having a well position SPAA at all times is not something you can count on, as it’s not something the game rewards. Most of the time, the best you can hope for 1-2 guys stuck in SPAA after losing their tanks, just sitting in spawn, waiting for aircraft to pop up. It’s better than nothing, but not enough to counter a skilled helicopter pilot at a wide variety of BRs.
This is a seperate, much larger point that I mostly agree with. However, I’d also point out that as of tomorrow, many of the really problematic jets are being moved up. Not all of them, and of those that were not all of them are enough, but it’s at least a step in the right direction. The more problematic helicopters remain conspicuously untouched.
Still, I look forward to being able to play 8.7 without the looming fear of A-4Es every single game. In fact, without a real 9.7 lineup, we might be seeing the last of the A-4E for quite a long time, and that thought makes me very happy.
I agree with you here too. With the addition that the Roland 3 comes into play at 10.3 at the latest (actually 9.7 for the French). Even with that, the helicopters were the smallest problem. While the Roland 3 is almost useless against jets, the helicopters particularly suffer. However, I have to admit that I haven’t flown a helicopter on the BR yet and can’t say anything about what it’s like to fly on the BR against these AAs. In any case, it wouldn’t have been much fun with a helicopter against my FlaRakPz.