SPAA-Helicopter inbalance

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
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I got to get this off my chest cause my frustration levels are insane. Note: I am talking about 8.7 to 9.7 helicopters, not op top-tier helicopters.

So I have been on both ends, been playing the game for a while and I remember countermeasures working against even radar SPAA. IRCM used to affect 9.7 missile SPAA.

That’s all in the past. Now we have IFV radar lock that cant be affected by almost anything as even ground clutter does not exist other than hard terrain having some minuscule effect on the lead indicator. Thus radar SPAA is reigning supreme without any counter to it, other than the pretty toxic standoff weaponry that depending on the tech tree either appears at 8.7 or as high as 11.0 earliest. But that’s besides the topic.

Literally yesterday I was in my (Gepard)-correction- ZSU-23-4, sitting in the thick pine forest of Seversk and locked helicopters reliably on the move in the middle of the forest patch…That should be impossible…if this game is meant to be realistic.

Then we have missile-based SPAA that already starts off with Gen 2(?) missiles(IRCCM ) but faces helicopters that have obsolete counters to gen 2 missile capabilities.
I can be pre-flaring with large countermeasures, have IRCM on the heli, rocket dump from 3km, then dump flares while ducking behind terrain and the Ozelot missile hits reliably…I remember it used to have problems with IRCM, I remember it being literally impossible to lock IRCM-defended helicopters from 2km’s even. Now IRCM just does not work at all… We are on the other side of the horse.

As an 8.7-9.7 helicopter(Mi-24) I have no working countermeasures, I have no tactic at my disposal that can defeat IRCCM missiles or radar lock.

It feels like :

  • balance is all over the place, and it almost feels like spaa is tuned more to counter, top-tier helicopters while they face mid-tier
    *Radar lock is performing completely unrealistically(as my ZSU-23-4 example shows it)
  • Countermeasures are nerfed way too much compared to what they do in air rb.

Its tough…and then there is console aim assist which is just egregious but something we could live with if mid-tier helicopters vs spaa would be balanced.

I just want to have fun, I want to use my ordinance and not sit 4km away(if the stingers allow it even) sending atgms with which I can hit a tank 4 times and only do crits. I want to get closer to the battlefield, flying low, using terrain and objects to my advantage, doing maneuvers, flaring, sending off missiles and using cannons… but I cant, because Gaijin turned the 4km+ radius of the battlefield into a death zone that every flying thing should avoid at all cost and use standoff weapons from outside the range of spaa.

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If you are talking about the target tracking keybind, PC also has it and it doesn’t work if you can’t lock targets (so not in realistic).

If I remember correctly, the IFVs use IR tracking and not radars to track targets. So there is no “IFV radar lock”. So ground clutter is non existent and you have to break LOS for the lock to be lost.

Missile based SPAA (IR in this case) are woefully underperforming against helicopters. The Chaparral and even LAV-AD can’t really lock helis past 2km, even ones without exhaust shielding and IRCM. Helicopters with IRCM are not engageable by IR missile systems at all.

The advantage for SPAA at the BRs you mentioned are with the Radar Guided Gun SPAA as the IR missile SPAA have a ton of trouble engaging helicopters because the IR tracking for them is so terrible. Helicopters with any inkling of ability to shift side to side during missile guidance makes them basically immune to gun SPAA other than the M247 with proxy shells because of the travel time of the shells.

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Thats false because I get regularly deleted off the sky at 3km by stingers, despite the IRCM+pre flare+manuver+flare dump…even a 9M39 did this yesterday to my surprise…

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alright fair

which already makes guiding the atgm extremely hard because the helicopter is moving+target is moving+ the dmg dealt is most of the time equals to a wet fart+ tracers are not at where the hamster servers show them + it does not take too much of a brainpower to not just shoot at the indicator circle but predict the movement of the heli.
Also, still, radar should not work in dense forests locking horizontally through the layers of trees.

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The balance is fine up to the AA rockets.
After that, you will either no longer be able to get the helicopter into the air because VT-1 or Pantsir missiles will pluck you out of the air. They track you with radar through vegetation like trees and the missiles fly through trees as if they weren’t there.

And if there is no AA on the field, you can destroy the enemy tanks with the helicopter at will.

The Tiger UHT has the best balance against ground targets, as it needs an average of 3 of its 8 terrible bad PARS missiles to destroy a tank. If they can even manage a lock and then hit.

The only balance largely exists between the helicopters. Some have a distance and speed advantage (Russian helicopters) with their rockets.
Others (like the Tiger UHT) have a FF rocket with the PARS, which also works reasonably well against helicopters. However, with 3km less range.

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Helicopters whining about not being able to do anything against ground targets?
That’s rich.

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Nobody wrote that here. It’s not that difficult to understand. If there are top tier AAs on the field, the helicopter doesn’t do anything. Without them, he is invulnerable and destroys a lot of targets with little effort.

The AA is too bad for aircraft that shoot with FF ATGMS from 25km. Against helicopters they are to good.

Thats bad balance.

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the biggest issue is the unreliable tracking of heli fired munitions, unreliable damage when shooting them down and helis being able to just rearm constantly while SPAA have to go to a capture point to do so

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Nobody wrote that here.

They did though, OP is whining about how unbalanced ground SPAA allegedly is in the BR region where heli capabilities massively outstrip SPAA capability (assuming the helicopter is piloted by someone with a brain).

Which is interesting because judging by OPs gepard stats he struggles to hit the broad side of a barn.

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The gepard is one of the easiest if not the easiest SPAA to use BR for BR in the game so thats uh interesting? But people can always improve as long as they want to

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Why improve? Easier to whine about how broken SPAA allegedly is in a region where it is most neutered.
Also OP admitting to flying into range of ozelots whilst in a helicopter with missiles that outrange the ozelot is certainly unique.

I think anyone who has played the gepard or any radar SPAA around that BR region knows that a heli even remotely attempting to avoid being hit is an absolute nightmare to deal with.

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I play helis at that BR a lot and it’s pretty unfair to be honest, if I sit at my missile’s max range and pay attention I can just kill SPAA because I can just dodge their fire

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Yeah and as someone who enjoys SPAA, a lot, I am very aware of how good and bad helicopters play. As you said a helicopter in that region played well is only going to be killed by a plane or possibly proxy fuse SPAA.

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So I can count on one hand the games in which I ran out of ammunition with the FlaRakRad. Helis are therefore pathetic victims that were responsible for less than 5 of my 90 deaths with the FlaRakRad.

However, you have no chance against jets if they are used correctly. When it comes to kills, it’s the other way around. Once you turn it on, that’s it for you.

And in the lower BRS: The Gepard has the same effective range as the HOT-6. And you can find the Hot-6 on 9.3. On 8.3 you can find the SS11 or AGM 22. They shoot 0.5km shorter. The Gepard has the best chance against helicopters.

On the Ocelot’s BR there are only 2 mediocre US helicopters with 4 Hellfire. Otherwise there is no ATGM that has the range of the Ocelot. The helicopters there also don’t have IRCM and can therefore be locked on.

It remains. AAs are almost useless against CAS Jets. They are a nightmare against helicopters.

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The LAV-AD (Stinger) does not lock IR on helicopters at appropriate ranges. It is easier to gun down a helicopter with the 25mm than successfully lock an IR missile. The Stingers have a 6km all aspect range and cannot lock a 1000 degree Fahrenheit target with no IRCM or engine shielding (Alouette) at nearly that range. Even a 3km engagement range is underperforming for most targets. It is easier to lock cooler prop driven planes with a IR SAM than it is to lock any helicopter.

Yes, avoiding damage while guiding missiles is hard when it takes 10+ seconds to hit targets at 2km+. I find it funny that you say keeping a cursor on a tank with sight stabilization is difficult but firing at the indicator for radar guided guns, which is know to have errors and must be used in the gun sights to have any accuracy because of the difference in size of 3rd person view, is easy. I could imagine your helicopter use involves spawning at the first airfield, gaining enough altitude to see the battlefield well enough to find a target, and then flying straight ahead while in gunner view with no sight stabilization on completely unaware of any SPAA’s existence. I say this because this is what most players do, and they are almost effortless to shoot down. I don’t play helis that much, but when I do it is quite easy to hold a target while shifting slowly left and right to avoid SPAA gun fire, especially against the SPAA that have tracers.

It doesn’t. I don’t know how you’ve come up with this information, but it would be great to see some recreatable proof. I use the Gepard, Shilka, M247, and Yenisei quite often because I enjoy swatting down the helicopter pilots at 7.7 to 9.0 and I can never search/track targets through treelines. Otherwise positioning wouldn’t mean anything and SPAA could just hide in the treelines and gun at any aircraft, which doesn’t happen.

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So much of your post is entirely wrong I don’t even know where to start.

The part about the ozelot was maybe the funniest piece of completely wrong opinion since I literally just tested it with someone against the mi-24a that has no countermeasures etc etc and the ozelot can’t lock it until 2.1km on a clear weather map.

If you are flying within 2km of an ozelot in a helicopter you deserve to die for your stupidity.

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I make a suggestion. Before you discuss experiences with helicopters against AAs, fly them once :-). Then you can perhaps also judge whether 2km range for the lock on the BR of the Ocelot is a lot or a little.

Your entire experience on the topic is based on your use of AAs. And your KD with these vehicles show that there is hardly any reason to cry about OP helicopters.

Helicopter pilots rarely achieve this level of effectiveness. Especially since the helicopter often costs 6 times as much SP compared to an AA. On average, a helicopter achieves a KD of 1.
That’s ok, but not considering the SP it costs. If it costs twice as much as a tank, it has to shoot two, otherwise you can actually leave it on the ground.

BTW. with the exception of the Russian helicopters, which can usually do whatever they want in the shadow of absolute air supremacy and can reach an average KD high above the 1.

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I make a suggestion. Before you discuss experiences with AAs against helicopters, play them once :-). Then you can perhaps also judge whether 2km range for lock on the BR of the Ozelot is a lot or little.

But really you’re bad if you die to an ozelot in a helicopter, even the alouette outranges it handily.

Helicopter pilots rarely achieve this level of effectiveness.

Just because you are bad and ineffective does not mean that everyone is. I’ve played against a lot of very bad helicopter pilots and I have played against some very good pilots. The good ones that use their reach to their advantage and almost untouchable.

You are the former.

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So you are telling me that me sitting in a dense forest with the Gepard, reliably locking helicopters at 2+km out is normal, realistic or balanced ?

Because that does not make any sense in any realm. And no, nobody in whining. I know its hard to play both sides for some people and realize how OP one is at a certain br range and not justify it with but at top tier…

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Did you even read what I wrote? what else can I do other than, pre flare+have IRCM+dump -missiles- rockets and proceed to manuver+ flare dump and get to cover ?
As far as I know I used literally every tool given to me .