Only at top tier, USSR has SPAA that is mediocre in comparison at 8.0 in terms of AA capability, I mean you look at the Shilka and then you look at the Gepard, I mean not Gepard as Gepards turret/35mm oerlikons that is a better AA and AT compare to what Shilka could dish out, the M247 also out-class it in that department because CAS wouldn’t even know they are been shot at until its too late. And lower br they are also mostly mediocre SPAA like the BTR-152D, it is not a good SPAA compare to something the likes of Wirblewind or the new T77E1, only the BTR-ZD is half decent but you gotta deal with that reload after a short burst fire. Most br USSR has rather trash SPAA, or a nicer way to call them “not user friendly”
9.3 - 10.3 SPAA is probably the most balanced in the game.
Ayit, Super Etendard, Jaguar, Alpha Jet E, AMX, G91Y, Q-5L, Q-5A, AV-8S, Jaguar, Harrier GR3, Buccaneer S2, Buccaneer S2B, Su-25, Alpha Jet A, Tornado IDS, A-6E TRAM, A-4E, F-111A…
ALL CAS options that give good counterplay to the SPAA available AT their BRs.
SAAB-105G, F-86, Alpha Jets, F-84Fs, Scimitar, Saar, A32A… all provide excellent counter-play against those SPAA.
And what’s the alternative ? CAS being able to destroy tanks without any sort of counter play?
Why should tanks be relegated to cannon fodder in their only game mode?
IMO, SPAA should always be the more powerful in the AA V CAS dynamic. If CAS truly takes skill, as it’s ‘mains’ so often like to profess, I have faith in their supreme abilities to adapt and overcome.
2 Likes
How so? I’ve spaded 9 SPAAs at the tier. Type 87, ZA-35, ItPsv Leopard, VEAK (pre-nerf), AMX-30 DCA, Shilka x2 (Russian and Italian), SANTAL and Type 93. That’s not including the Falcon, since I only ever tank hunted with it, and the lack of a RADAR makes dealing with SACLOS ranged weapons almost impossible.
I’d argue the York is better than the LAV AD. At least when it comes to hunting aircraft. I’ll take tracerless proxy over the 25mm with very limited range, Stingers that miss if the target makes a hard pull, and no search RADAR.
Clearing the sky can be infinitely more valuable, especially if you get people before they drop, or at least before they’re out of ordinance. Good CAS planes like the SAAB, Alpha Jet or A-4 family can turn one spawn into 4-5 free kills if unconstested.
This is not information anyone would have access to, unless you’ve been painstakingly keeping track of it yourself, which seems doubtful.
Either way, it’s still not proof of you being exceptional against aircraft. It certainly doesn’t explain the low air KD you have in every SPAA that can’t consistently hunt tanks (M247, M16, M163, etc).
Thunderskill absolutely includes stock games. I know this because it tracks my stats for vehicles I’ve played under 10 games, which I’ve definitely not spaded.
Why would this make the Sgt York’s stats better than the other RADAR guided SPAAs? Wouldn’t that make it worse, since people would be bringing it to higher tiers where it would be less competitive?
I don’t know where you’re getting this from, because I have played so much rank 6. Feel free to check for yourself, if you want. I’ll link it right here.
2 Likes
Agreed. Though I usually bring both, the M247 is a much better plane killer than the LAV because I can kill anything within range and I’m not rolling the dice on badly modeled stingers which may be impossible to flare/juke or may decide all 8 don’t want to guide and you never know which.
1 Like
Regardless of which you think is better for SPAA (which is subjective), only one of them is actually useful for capping and destroying tanks, which is 10x more valuable than killing one of the two enemy planes to spawn whole game.
those 4-5 kills are 90% of the time either campers, or noobs that wouldn’t have any real effect on the match anyways. Besides, those are all close-range CAS that can easily be taken out with an actually useful vehicle, e.g BMP.
I beg to differ. My M19A1 KD is better than all my other SPAAs.
Thunderskill? yes. Players? no.
Your point was it would have to compete with IR SAMs. My point is the only American IR SAM is garbage, and thus no competition.
CAS mains: “why should we care about things we don’t even enjoy playing? since we already has our own game mode haha this game starts with planes…”
The audacity lol
1 Like
You cannot be good with the M19/M42/Ostwind 2 and shit at the M247 lmao, I’m still confused about you saying the T77E1 is not a good SPAA, maybe my sarcasm detector just isn’t working today.
“Just spawn AA bro”
Okay
“Not fair, AA make plane go bing bang ouch. Snail pls nurf :(“
2 Likes
Because .50cals are extremely limited, both against planes and tanks.
Strawman 101
The comical thing is, it’s hardly even a strawman. This is the most cyclical, repetitive argument in the history of this game.
Tanker gets frustrated at CAS
CAS tells tanker to spawn AA
Tanker spawns AA
CAS cries about AA
CAS more powerful than AA is added
AA cries about CAS
CAS tells tanker to spawn CAP
Tanker gets frustrated at CAP spawn cost
CAS tells tanker to just spawn his AA then…
Rinse and repeat, ad nauseam, for a decade and counting.
CAS isn’t happy unless they can space bar half the enemy team with impunity. Tankers aren’t happy when they’re being space bar’d without adequate or realistic counterplay.
I’ll take an SPAA that can consistently keep the skies clear over one that can cap lightly contested points any day. Sure, having the flexibility to do both can be nice, but generally your lineups should include 3-4 other vehicles that can do that better. If it comes down to SPAA having to cap points, something’s gone terribly wrong.
Something like uncontested CAS coming in and wiping out all your team’s ground vehicles, for instance.
This is unknowable, and certainly not my experience. However, I would point out that a consisntent target for CAS vehicles are tanks who are attempting to cap points, since their position is given to them for free. And you seem to think that capping is 10x more valuable than shooting down aircraft, so do your own math on that.
The SAAB and Alpha Jet are CCIP CAS, able to bomb with precision either from beyond SPAA’s range or in close range, popup attacks that catch them off guard. A-4s are definitely not close range if they’re playing correctly, since they can guide their ordinance while manuevering at >2km.
Using these untracked stats you just happen to have? That aren’t born out by your other SPAAs which are easier to use but can’t hunt tanks? Those stats?
I legitmately don’t know what this means.
All IR SAMs at or around this tier have basically identical usability, with only slight differences. Claiming the Sgt York is bad because people sometimes take it up to fight stuff well beyond it’s BR, which it cannot handle, is not exactly a fair mark against it.
It’s not about SPAA, it’s about the LAV AD being very fast and able to defend itself.
Simply doesn’t have with how little CAS get’s spawned, and ESPECIALLY doesn’t happen at 9.0
You do realize the hypocrisy in saying “so do your own math on that” right?
Not an issue if you don’t sit out in the open, bonus points if you sit next to a dead body.
bullpups are useful in therory, but in practice, there’s a reason it’s rare to see them ingame. CCRP bombs are more useful.
untracked? It’s called > stat cards <
These > stat cards < reccord missions played, spawns, deaths, kills, and more for each individual vehicle.
Noobs don’t use thunderskill. Most thunderskill players have their most played vehicles spaded.
It’s not “slight differences” putting the Chappy at 9.0. That thing is just straight up awful.
nearly every other nation in WT gets better 9.0+ options than the M247. The M247 is the only good SPAA for 9.0-10.0, so it must be able to fill the 10.0 role aswell.
The spaa is supposed to protect it’s team because the tanks can’t defend themselves. It’s not cas vs spaa, it’s cas vs team. Because of this the spaa needs to be at least as powerful as the plane to effectively protect it’s team.
9.3 stinger type weapons do slaughter in a downtier, but it would be hard to move them up since Aircraft at 9.3 and up start getting hard to kill with non-proxy fuze AA.
As almost always, compression is the problem.
And also players who are (justifiably) bitter about CAS being too strong will always want planes/helis to be as un-viable as possible.
A potential fix, and good change all around, would be to make it cheap for planes to only spawn with guns/air to air weapons. Maybe then 9.3-10.3 AA could move up a step.
Perhaps also limit how many planes can be in the air at one time, for each team.
You look at his profile in-game and You will get a grasp of his views at the game.
For SPAA to be more powerful than CAS and balanced, it’d need to be the same or higher SP cost. There’s a reason low-tier SPAA is so cheap. The issue comes when planes are being put up against SPAA literally decades ahead of it’s time, whilst still being 70sp.
Imo the issue isn’t even SAMs. The issue is comically undertiered radar SPAA, e.g ZSU-23 or the Gepard and its many clones.
Is it even worth explaining why make CAP super cheap and limiting how many planes can be up at once are both horrible ideas?
Planes always have the upper hand over SPAA no matter the B.R…
1 Like
I’d love to hear your excuse on why CAP planes being cheap is a bad thing given how poor your SPAA are OP argument has been
2 Likes
The thread was not about those systems. And yes, you could explain instead of being smug and smart.