Because .50cals are extremely limited, both against planes and tanks.
Strawman 101
The comical thing is, it’s hardly even a strawman. This is the most cyclical, repetitive argument in the history of this game.
Tanker gets frustrated at CAS
CAS tells tanker to spawn AA
Tanker spawns AA
CAS cries about AA
CAS more powerful than AA is added
AA cries about CAS
CAS tells tanker to spawn CAP
Tanker gets frustrated at CAP spawn cost
CAS tells tanker to just spawn his AA then…
Rinse and repeat, ad nauseam, for a decade and counting.
CAS isn’t happy unless they can space bar half the enemy team with impunity. Tankers aren’t happy when they’re being space bar’d without adequate or realistic counterplay.
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I’ll take an SPAA that can consistently keep the skies clear over one that can cap lightly contested points any day. Sure, having the flexibility to do both can be nice, but generally your lineups should include 3-4 other vehicles that can do that better. If it comes down to SPAA having to cap points, something’s gone terribly wrong.
Something like uncontested CAS coming in and wiping out all your team’s ground vehicles, for instance.
This is unknowable, and certainly not my experience. However, I would point out that a consisntent target for CAS vehicles are tanks who are attempting to cap points, since their position is given to them for free. And you seem to think that capping is 10x more valuable than shooting down aircraft, so do your own math on that.
The SAAB and Alpha Jet are CCIP CAS, able to bomb with precision either from beyond SPAA’s range or in close range, popup attacks that catch them off guard. A-4s are definitely not close range if they’re playing correctly, since they can guide their ordinance while manuevering at >2km.
Using these untracked stats you just happen to have? That aren’t born out by your other SPAAs which are easier to use but can’t hunt tanks? Those stats?
I legitmately don’t know what this means.
All IR SAMs at or around this tier have basically identical usability, with only slight differences. Claiming the Sgt York is bad because people sometimes take it up to fight stuff well beyond it’s BR, which it cannot handle, is not exactly a fair mark against it.
It’s not about SPAA, it’s about the LAV AD being very fast and able to defend itself.
Simply doesn’t have with how little CAS get’s spawned, and ESPECIALLY doesn’t happen at 9.0
You do realize the hypocrisy in saying “so do your own math on that” right?
Not an issue if you don’t sit out in the open, bonus points if you sit next to a dead body.
bullpups are useful in therory, but in practice, there’s a reason it’s rare to see them ingame. CCRP bombs are more useful.
untracked? It’s called > stat cards <
These > stat cards < reccord missions played, spawns, deaths, kills, and more for each individual vehicle.
Noobs don’t use thunderskill. Most thunderskill players have their most played vehicles spaded.
It’s not “slight differences” putting the Chappy at 9.0. That thing is just straight up awful.
nearly every other nation in WT gets better 9.0+ options than the M247. The M247 is the only good SPAA for 9.0-10.0, so it must be able to fill the 10.0 role aswell.
The spaa is supposed to protect it’s team because the tanks can’t defend themselves. It’s not cas vs spaa, it’s cas vs team. Because of this the spaa needs to be at least as powerful as the plane to effectively protect it’s team.
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9.3 stinger type weapons do slaughter in a downtier, but it would be hard to move them up since Aircraft at 9.3 and up start getting hard to kill with non-proxy fuze AA.
As almost always, compression is the problem.
And also players who are (justifiably) bitter about CAS being too strong will always want planes/helis to be as un-viable as possible.
A potential fix, and good change all around, would be to make it cheap for planes to only spawn with guns/air to air weapons. Maybe then 9.3-10.3 AA could move up a step.
Perhaps also limit how many planes can be in the air at one time, for each team.
You look at his profile in-game and You will get a grasp of his views at the game.
For SPAA to be more powerful than CAS and balanced, it’d need to be the same or higher SP cost. There’s a reason low-tier SPAA is so cheap. The issue comes when planes are being put up against SPAA literally decades ahead of it’s time, whilst still being 70sp.
Imo the issue isn’t even SAMs. The issue is comically undertiered radar SPAA, e.g ZSU-23 or the Gepard and its many clones.
Is it even worth explaining why make CAP super cheap and limiting how many planes can be up at once are both horrible ideas?
Planes always have the upper hand over SPAA no matter the B.R…
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I’d love to hear your excuse on why CAP planes being cheap is a bad thing given how poor your SPAA are OP argument has been
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The thread was not about those systems. And yes, you could explain instead of being smug and smart.
While useful for tank hunting, this is not a mandatory role for SPAA. Again, you lineup should be filled with other vehicles that can engage ground targets just as easily. What they can’t do is engage aircraft, and that’s the role SPAA should be primarily judged on.
With the obvious exception of SPAA that are primarily used for tank hunting like the 57-2 and Falcon.
You’re arguing personal experience against personal experience again, this leads nowhere. All I can say is that there’s apparently enough CAS for the average Thunderskill player to go positive in the Sgt York. How do you accout for this if CAS is such a rarity at the tier?
You’re the one throwing out arbitrary metrics for things. You said capping is 10x more valuable than shooting down a plane. Therefore, if a plane manages to bomb someone and prevent a cap, that plane has done something simply extrodinary according to your metrics. Especially if he has enough ordinance to do it again.
If you’ve fired at any CAS plane while the CCIP plane is watching, it doesn’t matter where you’ve hidden yourself, since they can just line up a run to hit you. You’d need to be moving cover constantly, making you vulnerable not just to enemy aircraft, but tanks too.
Not to mention this requires a map with cover you can use. Many of them don’t. Sands of Sinai comes to mind.
I doubt it, but I don’t have the A-4E so I’ll let someone else take this on.
Stat cards are the things that pop up when you hover over a vehicle, that show you it’s speed, weaponry, armor, etc.
The service record is what I think you’re thinking of, and while that does record deaths, it does not record what each death was to, only the total.
The Chapparal is the worst, which is why it’s the lowest tier, but the difference isn’t that big. All IR SAMS are borderline useless against competant players.
I would happily take the Sgt York over any other SPAA at 10.0 or below. Yes, it gets hard countered by long range standoff munitions at those tiers, but so do all SPAAs below 10.3. At least it can consistently engage helicopters at medium ranges, and shreds planes capable of dodging IR SAMs.
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Oh I have known for quite some time that he’s a CAS driver who opposes any SPAA/AD that can threaten the ability to seal club ground assets.
Its been fun to see him claim something and then disprove it in the same or next post though.
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Totally anecdotal, but Bullpups on the 1st two Buccaneers are some of my favorite weapons to use. Generous blast radius, very easy and responsive to aim. Also good on Skyhawk, but overshadowed by Walleyes.
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Try any BR other than 9.0-10.0?
??? Because every single SACLOS SPAA being made 50% worse overnight was definitely just some bad SPAA being nerfed? On top of all of the IR guided SPAA that isn’t Russian being modeled wrong? You have no idea what you’re talking about.
Your ability to keep that cognitive dissonance that strong is crazy since the ways SPAA needed to be buffed have been laid out precisely in the past.
Sometimes I find my comrades in-game
CAS are like a fun timer in game to decide how long you could have fun in your tanks, they can simply come in and say: stop having fun bro. I started using SPAAs not because I enjoy playing them, it’s because I want to give them CAS mains a taste of their medicine, still no SPAA could do that easily to any pilot that has 5 more braincells than a orange cat.
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TEC made an excellent video discussing this point, that’s well worth a watch:
To summarize, SPAA is often so inundated by the sheer amount of CAS in the sky, that they simply don’t have time to move out of the spawn before they’re immediately called into action. That’s why you so routinely see SPAA ‘stuck’ in their spawn.
Something not helped by a lot of very poor map design, which gives SPAA no nearby cover to move to anyway. They either sit where they spawn - trying to take advantage of spawn protection for as long as possible (And you need to be stationary to fire effective anyway), or they try and run, only to die to CAS out in the open as they do so.
In regards to accuracy. It’s far easier for plane to strafe slow / stationary SPAA, than it is for SPAA to hit fast moving manoeuvring plane.
The ikv 72 was build more than ten years after the Tiger. It’s so unfair that it’s so much lower.
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Again, an SPAA that can is far more useful than one that can’t.
Having a positive K/D means nothing when you average less than 2 kills a game.
Which is exactly why SPAA that can both cap and shoot down planes is so valuable.
You just gave the solution.
If SPAA players were smart enough to realize that when a high alt F-84B-26 going in a straight line above them drops a bomb then immediatly pulls off, means he just used CCRP/CCIP to get a perfect low-risk bomb drop, then your argument would be completely destroyed.
But no, they watch me coming from the moment I’m on their radar, they stare directly at me as they try to shoot me down, they watch me drop a bomb, and then act surprised when they blow up 20 seconds later. Your argument only works because SPAA mains are trash at WT.
Other IR SAMs just need 1. The enemy to be within range 2. the enemy to be unaware
The Chappy 1. The enemy to be within range 2. The enemy to be flying below a certain speed 3. The enemy to be flying within a certain angle 4. the enemy to be unaware
~6.7-~10.0 is where SPAA gains a massive advantage, although that depends on what nation you plane.
I’ve seen a handful actual bug reports, Gajin ignoring them is nothing unique to SPAA. The rest is just dumb cope like “give non-radar SPAA lead indicator” or “move early SAMs to 6.7”
I’d certainly like to see some buffs for CAS at that BR, like CBUs, but I don’t think SPAA is an inherent issue or too strong.