We are talking about SPAA being OP against air assets. Ground kills are irrelevant here.
Game Design to frustrate the player’s balance does not exist
Rock
Paper
Scissors
Mr Ragebait when he realizes things can be designed for multiple purposes:
The problem there is that people use them for both in this game. The gepard is both an excellent SPAA and an anti-tank vehicle.
What I mean that they specifically added anti-tank capabilities and quick switching between both ‘duties’ (sorry my english), which is evident by the dual munition feeds per 35 mm gun.
Yeah for self defense. Which is obvious by the fact that the self-defense APDS belts only hold 20 rpg.
Sure, but you can still use those 20 rounds and the normal AP rounds extremely effectively in Ground AB/RB/SB.
Self-defence is still anti-tank.
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Why is that a problem? Air kills against spawns show how many air assets Gepard kills per spawn. So in total Gepard has 0.7 kills per spawn which consists of .36 air kills and 0.34 ground kills. Even if all those kills were air kills 0.7 kills per spawn doesn’t make vehicle OP.
We can argue here to infinity but Gaijin cares only about statistical performance. Nothing else matters.
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You are right hat it can use regular belt for ground targets.
But just because it can be used that way doesnt mean it was designed to fight ground targets regularly. Its primary role, both IRL and in-game, is to engage airborne threats to ground units.
Following the same logic, any top tier MBT that has commander MG can engage air targets. Does that capabiliy mean their anti-air effectivness needs to be taken into account when cosindering their BR?
If so, following the same line of logic, any top tier MBT has extremely poor anti-air capability relative to the capability of CAS and thus they need to be lower in BR.
Oh no, I agree that the Gepard isn’t OP for the general player, the skill ceiling for that vehicle is just far higher if you want to make it an OP vehicle.
Vehicles like the Gepard, Chieftain Marksman and the ZA-35 all have rather low K/D’s for both air-and-ground targets, but are also some of the easiest to get a nuke in. They require more skill to perfect.
I would also take their use into account yes. SPAA have gone up a lot in BR if they killed ground targets disproportionally.
But thats the point. Thread subject is about SPAA being ridiculusly OP. Average stats don’t support that. There are always some outliers but in average SPAA is not OP by any metric otherwise Gaijins aoutmated algorithm would change is BR.
You neglect that the whole discussion is within the scope of SPAA interaction with CAS. Overall KDR is largely irrelevant, what is important is efficacy against CAS. In fact, the data you have does not say anything meaningful on this matter, due to confounding factors. Maybe this is too hard for you to understand, so simply: you are saying numbers that do not agree with you.
SPAA OP? Are you sure about that?
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Data says what it says. SPAA is not OP. Outliers are just outliers. On average its not OP.
But wouldnt this lead to absurd outcomes?
Balancing top tier MBT according to their anti-air capability, as lowering them to a BR where they would be effective against air threats, would push post 2000 MBTs to like WW2/early cold war BRs.
Yes, falcon instantly comes to mind. But this also shows how absurd this line of logic is, Falcon is now at BR where it cant engage air targets effectively, leading to more players using it against ground targets, making the problem even bigger.
What are you doing man, you werent supposed to kinematically defeat those stingers!!!
You were supposed to fly straight and get yourself killed!!!
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Yeah, I agree in the most part, like I said here:
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Oh no, I’m basing it more on ground kills, as those are the key part of Ground Realistic to win a battle.
Again, falcon problem.
SPAAs simply require more nuance to balance agaisnt CAS thank tanks require to balance against other tanks.
I’m sorry, but at 8.3 the Falcon is still a great SPAA. I’m not the best player, but I still use it occasionally as an SPAA. (although I like to use the other 8.3’s more, as they have more munition to use as an SPAA)