SPAA at 9.3-10.3 is hilariously OP and i see no one talking about it

[Pangolin_Fan]

Because CAS pilots learn to counter SPAA, whilst SPAA mains learn to complain on the forums.

@Aegis270

Personal experience vs personal experience is kinda pointless, but there is typically a lot of CAS when I play 8.7-9.3. Albiet, a lot of them are ATGM helicopters, but that only furthers my point considering how good the Sgt York is at dealing with them, and how utterly useless Gepards (and weaker SPAAs) can be if the helicopter pilot is remotely skilled.

A skilled heli pilot is very hard to take down with gun SPAA like M247 or Gepard, however a skilled SPAA player (very rare btw) is near impossible to kill with SACLOS ATGMs.

@Aegis270

Since the Sgt York just needs to get close enough

the yorky’s radar range is just barely far enough to track helis from their helipad if you’re at center of map (from spawn it’s too far),

@Aegis270

(Not to mention the tracerless shots mean aware CAS can’t see the shots incoming to jink them), planes can’t just trivialize them with basic awareness and manuevers. This means it can actually counter CAS, not just CAS pilots who are dumb enough to fly in straight lines and just hope that no SPAA exists.

tracerless proxy shots sure are nice, but they simply don’t outway the sacrifices.

@Aegis270

Frankly, I don’t think you’re qualified to have this argument, since of all the SPAAs you’ve mentioned, you’ve only ever played the Sgt York, and you only managed a 0.4 KD against aircraft with it. Same with the M163 and Chapparal. If SPAAs at this tier are indeed so overpowered, how come you can’t make them work?

Look at my M19A1 stats. Massive difference huh? That’s because planes are rare at M163’s br and mythical at M247’s br, meaning 90% of games result in either 1 plane kill 0 deaths, or 1 death and 1 or 2 tank kills cause I got bored of waiting to fix a problem that doesn’t exist.

M19A1, on the other hand, faces tons of planes, AND it can tank out tanks quite well.

[AK_Awful_Waffle-psn]

I agree. I also understand that the game has gone long enough and crossed enough platforms that some players have multiple accounts.

Hell I’ve got atleast 3 active accounts between my Xbox, PC and PS, and I lost my original PS account to a breach.

I also understand that not everyone has the time, the skills, and/or the equipment to be a pro. Everyone has a life and their own wants/goals. Some dudes need to grind for K/D some want to play to do x or y. Hell a lot of the time I just fly an OH58 (formerly 10.3 Lynx) with ATAS because I found it amusing to kill planes and get hate mail.

I was just laughing at your delivery. That was a clean KO.

[d_dante]

I wholeheartedly disagree. Please watch the first 5 minutes of this for A perfect example of my argument.

THE CASPOCALYPSE - War Thunder

[AK_Awful_Waffle-psn]

@Pangolin_Fan

Because CAS pilots learn to counter SPAA, whilst SPAA mains learn to complain on the forums.

Then by your own admission they aren’t OP, because pilots have learned to counter them.

Self defeating argument

[Pangolin_Fan]

@AK_Awful_Waffle

I was just laughing at your delivery. That was a clean KO.

Yep. Ko’d himself XD.

[AK_Awful_Waffle-psn]

Right, because there haven’t been multiple

@Pangolin_Fan

Yep. Ko’d himself XD.

Yeah because of the 5 active participants in the last hour, everyone of them other than you agreed you’re wrong…. He sure missed with that 🤣

And if your counter argument for why your KD is so poor in the M247, why are others not similarly low?

I don’t think in great but I’m posting at 2.0, (1.79 if you only count aircraft) in the 247.

[Normandy_Corsair]

@Pangolin_Fan

Because CAS pilots learn to counter SPAA, whilst SPAA mains learn to complain on the forums.

??? Anybody who understands this game knows why that is the case…? CAS has a natural advantage to SPAA in most BRs. SPAA has been nerfed and made worse over the years without any buffs when it wasn’t overpowered to begin with. Complaining isn’t a bad thing… stop trying to pretend it is.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@AK_Awful_Waffle

why are others not similarly low?

Because hundreds of games with only a fraction of the kills doesn’t mean skill XD

@USA PilotsAreBad

Anybody who understands this game knows why that is the case…? CAS has a natural advantage to SPAA in most BRs

“most BRs” as in rank 1.0-5.7 and 13.0? sure, if we go by that metric.

@USA PilotsAreBad

SPAA has been nerfed and made worse over the years without any buffs when it wasn’t overpowered to begin with.

no not really. some bad SPAA has been nerfed, mainly ones from minor nations like R3 T20, but most have been buffed. M42 got moved down, Russia got tons of new OP SPAA toys to play with, heck let’s not forget that SPAA have nearly unlimited ammo now, something planes don’t/can’t have.

@USA PilotsAreBad

Complaining isn’t a bad thing

complaining is a bad thing. actually addressing issues and giving thought out ideas on how to fix them is good. SPAA players almost never do the latter for some reason.

[MistaFin]

“ZSU-23s and Gepards are overpowered”

[Aegis270]

@Pangolin_Fan

A skilled heli pilot is very hard to take down with gun SPAA like M247 or Gepard, however a skilled SPAA player (very rare btw) is near impossible to kill with SACLOS ATGMs.

Considering your lack of experience with SPAA that have to fight SACLOS ATGMs, I don’t think you can make this claim. Especially because you’ve only played one CAS plane with SACLOS ATGMs (That being the A-4E), and you only managed under half of the KD that the average player on Thunderskill managed with it too (0.9 vs 2.05)

@Pangolin_Fan

the yorky’s radar range is just barely far enough to track helis from their helipad if you’re at center of map (from spawn it’s too far),

Which would be relevant only if helicopters could fire from their helipad. Which they can’t. The very worst the Sgt York has to deal with are the later Hinds with Sturms, which have a 5km range, which is entirely within the Sgt York’s range. Others, like the very common reserve tier ones like the Z-11 and Scout have 3-3.5km range, which is effectively point blank for the Sgt York.

@Pangolin_Fan

tracerless proxy shots sure are nice, but they simply don’t outway the sacrifices.

What possible sacrifices does the Sgt York make in an AA role? Yeah, it can’t hunt tanks consistently, but that’s not the role of an SPAA. Meanwhile, it has the capability of engaging planes that other SPAAs can’t even touch. That’s well worth the tradeoff. Judging SPAA by their tank hunting ability is pointless, especially when the topic of conversation is about how they deal (or don’t) with CAS.

@Pangolin_Fan

Look at my M19A1 stats. Massive difference huh? That’s because planes are rare at M163’s br and mythical at M247’s br, meaning 90% of games result in either 1 plane kill 0 deaths, or 1 death and 1 or 2 tank kills cause I got bored of waiting to fix a problem that doesn’t exist.

And your M19A1 (with 372 battles played) managed a whopping 0.3 KD against planes. Worse than your performance in the Sgt York.

To be fair, this is no surprise, the M19A1 is not a particularly good vehicle at engaging aircraft. The average player on Thunderskill only manages 0.11. But it doesn’t speak to your godlike ability to clear the skies with SPAA.

And the excuse for lack of planes at the tier doesn’t fly either (unintentional pun). The average KD against planes on Thunderskill for the Sgt York is 1.39, shockingly high for an SPAA and higher than every tier 6 SPAA equipped with IR SAMs.

For reference, the Gepard only manages 0.34. I wouldn’t consider these equal in the SPAA role.

Obligatory disclaimer that Thunderskill isn’t super accurate. However, it’s known to have a bias towards better players (Since only better players will have used the site, thus giving their stats over to them). Thus, the actual KDs for these SPAA is likely much worse than they seem here.

[AK_Awful_Waffle-psn]

@Pangolin_Fan

Because hundreds of games with only a fraction of the kills doesn’t mean skill XD

So you’re admitting you’re bad with quite possibly the easiest gun SPAA, after admitting that they’re not OP.

You’re not really making a convincing argument here…

[БЕИ]

@Pangolin_Fan

no not really. some bad SPAA has been nerfed, mainly ones from minor nations like R3 T20, but most have been buffed. M42 got moved down, Russia got tons of new OP SPAA toys to play with, heck let’s not forget that SPAA have nearly unlimited ammo now, something planes don’t/can’t have.

Only at top tier, USSR has SPAA that is mediocre in comparison at 8.0 in terms of AA capability, I mean you look at the Shilka and then you look at the Gepard, I mean not Gepard as Gepards turret/35mm oerlikons that is a better AA and AT compare to what Shilka could dish out, the M247 also out-class it in that department because CAS wouldn’t even know they are been shot at until its too late. And lower br they are also mostly mediocre SPAA like the BTR-152D, it is not a good SPAA compare to something the likes of Wirblewind or the new T77E1, only the BTR-ZD is half decent but you gotta deal with that reload after a short burst fire. Most br USSR has rather trash SPAA, or a nicer way to call them “not user friendly”

[AlvisWisla]

9.3 - 10.3 SPAA is probably the most balanced in the game.
Ayit, Super Etendard, Jaguar, Alpha Jet E, AMX, G91Y, Q-5L, Q-5A, AV-8S, Jaguar, Harrier GR3, Buccaneer S2, Buccaneer S2B, Su-25, Alpha Jet A, Tornado IDS, A-6E TRAM, A-4E, F-111A…

ALL CAS options that give good counterplay to the SPAA available AT their BRs.

@Pangolin_Fan

even as low as 8.3 with ZSU-23s and Gepards, SPAA is already far too strong

SAAB-105G, F-86, Alpha Jets, F-84Fs, Scimitar, Saar, A32A… all provide excellent counter-play against those SPAA.

[TheAceOfAces]

@simsimkek

and radar spaag’s in a downtier already make it pretty challenging, while in an uptier any spaa with manpads or guided missiles means you will instantly die without having any form of counter play

And what’s the alternative ? CAS being able to destroy tanks without any sort of counter play?

Why should tanks be relegated to cannon fodder in their only game mode?

IMO, SPAA should always be the more powerful in the AA V CAS dynamic. If CAS truly takes skill, as it’s ‘mains’ so often like to profess, I have faith in their supreme abilities to adapt and overcome.

[Aegis270]

@Pangolin_Fan

pretty ironic for you to say.

How so? I’ve spaded 9 SPAAs at the tier. Type 87, ZA-35, ItPsv Leopard, VEAK (pre-nerf), AMX-30 DCA, Shilka x2 (Russian and Italian), SANTAL and Type 93. That’s not including the Falcon, since I only ever tank hunted with it, and the lack of a RADAR makes dealing with SACLOS ranged weapons almost impossible.

@Pangolin_Fan

The york needs to be brought to higher BRs untill LAVAD bc there’s nothing usable inbetween the 2.

I’d argue the York is better than the LAV AD. At least when it comes to hunting aircraft. I’ll take tracerless proxy over the 25mm with very limited range, Stingers that miss if the target makes a hard pull, and no search RADAR.

@Pangolin_Fan

It can’t kill tanks with makes spawning it a waste to your team.

Clearing the sky can be infinitely more valuable, especially if you get people before they drop, or at least before they’re out of ordinance. Good CAS planes like the SAAB, Alpha Jet or A-4 family can turn one spawn into 4-5 free kills if unconstested.

@Pangolin_Fan

0.3 K/D against planes? You do realize that less than 30 of the 330 deaths are to planes right?

This is not information anyone would have access to, unless you’ve been painstakingly keeping track of it yourself, which seems doubtful.

Either way, it’s still not proof of you being exceptional against aircraft. It certainly doesn’t explain the low air KD you have in every SPAA that can’t consistently hunt tanks (M247, M16, M163, etc).

@Pangolin_Fan

Thunderskill is filled with tryhard swaying the stats (also doesn’t include the stock games)

Thunderskill absolutely includes stock games. I know this because it tracks my stats for vehicles I’ve played under 10 games, which I’ve definitely not spaded.

@Pangolin_Fan

America doesn’t have a proper SAM option untill 10.0

Why would this make the Sgt York’s stats better than the other RADAR guided SPAAs? Wouldn’t that make it worse, since people would be bringing it to higher tiers where it would be less competitive?

@Pangolin_Fan

Because, much like the M19A1, it’s used mainly for anti-tank. Ofc you wouldn’t know this since you don’t play rank 6.

I don’t know where you’re getting this from, because I have played so much rank 6. Feel free to check for yourself, if you want. I’ll link it right here.

[AK_Awful_Waffle-psn]

@Aegis270

I’d argue the York is better than the LAV AD. At least when it comes to hunting aircraft. I’ll take tracerless proxy over the 25mm with very limited range, Stingers that miss if the target makes a hard pull, and no search RADAR.

Agreed. Though I usually bring both, the M247 is a much better plane killer than the LAV because I can kill anything within range and I’m not rolling the dice on badly modeled stingers which may be impossible to flare/juke or may decide all 8 don’t want to guide and you never know which.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Aegis270

I’d argue the York is better than the LAV AD. At least when it comes to hunting aircraft. I’ll take tracerless proxy over the 25mm with very limited range, Stingers that miss if the target makes a hard pull, and no search RADAR.

Regardless of which you think is better for SPAA (which is subjective), only one of them is actually useful for capping and destroying tanks, which is 10x more valuable than killing one of the two enemy planes to spawn whole game.

@Aegis270

Clearing the sky can be infinitely more valuable, especially if you get people before they drop, or at least before they’re out of ordinance. Good CAS planes like the SAAB, Alpha Jet or A-4 family can turn one spawn into 4-5 free kills if unconstested.

those 4-5 kills are 90% of the time either campers, or noobs that wouldn’t have any real effect on the match anyways. Besides, those are all close-range CAS that can easily be taken out with an actually useful vehicle, e.g BMP.

@Aegis270

Either way, it’s still not proof of you being exceptional against aircraft.

I beg to differ. My M19A1 KD is better than all my other SPAAs.

@Aegis270

Thunderskill absolutely includes stock games

Thunderskill? yes. Players? no.

@Aegis270

Why would this make the Sgt York’s stats better than the other RADAR guided SPAAs? Wouldn’t that make it worse, since people would be bringing it to higher tiers where it would be less competitive?

Your point was it would have to compete with IR SAMs. My point is the only American IR SAM is garbage, and thus no competition.

[БЕИ]

@TheAceOfAces

And what’s the alternative ? CAS being able to destroy tanks without any sort of counter play?

Why should tanks be relegated to cannon fodder in their only game mode?

IMO, SPAA should always be the more powerful in the AA V CAS dynamic. If CAS truly takes skill, as it’s ‘mains’ so often like to profess, I have faith in their supreme abilities to adapt and overcome.

CAS mains: “why should we care about things we don’t even enjoy playing? since we already has our own game mode haha this game starts with planes…”

The audacity lol

[БЕИ]

@Pangolin_Fan

I beg to differ. My M19A1 KD is better than all my other SPAAs.

You cannot be good with the M19/M42/Ostwind 2 and shit at the M247 lmao, I’m still confused about you saying the T77E1 is not a good SPAA, maybe my sarcasm detector just isn’t working today.

[TheAceOfAces]

“Just spawn AA bro”

Okay

“Not fair, AA make plane go bing bang ouch. Snail pls nurf :(“