That is incredibly misleading.
IF.
no plane carries stingers.
ground launched stinger will never have initial launch speed of 1200km/h.
At the very best they will be launched from helicopter, which goes what, 200-250km/h?
He was comparing MANPADs and AIM-9L against flareless planes. Against a flareless plane, any reasonably launched AIM-9L is a death sentence, while any MANPAD can be pretty simply kinematically avoided.
Also meaning the smoke trail is instantly visible, because it’s right in your field of view. Compare that to a rear or side aspect shot, requiring the target to have good spatial awareness and actively scanning to see it.
A common mistake, but you don’t have to full pull to dodge MANPADs (or other low G missiles). Most players always full pull every time they need to turn, which is very wasteful in high AoA, high speed bleed vehicles. You don’t need the full AoA potential of such vehicles to outpull these missiles, and as you say, doing so will make you a sitting duck after a few. Instead, rolling and half pulling the stick is usually enough, depending on the vehicle.
This is somewhat academic anyways, as the first thing you should do if taking long range MANPAD fire (After dodging) is to dive. MANPADs can only lock what can be seen, and most maps have terrain that can be used to high from SPAA on the way in. Ideally, you’ll remember the approximate location you saw the MANPADs being fired from, and you’ll approach it from an unusual angle and pop-up attack the SPAA first.
… in a straight line tail chase where the target plane makes no attempt to manuever, yes. Because it’s designed to be launched from stationary ground vehicles, it has an extremely powerful initial booster to get it up to speed quickly, meaning it can outrun other missiles in the short term.
But if the target makes any manuever, something the Statshark calculator doesn’t account for, the Stinger will miss every time, while the other three don’t.
I spaded my ZSU at 9.3, I hated that thing it sucks donkey balls, but people will spawn SPAA no matter what even if one is up and its extremely annoying when you are in a shitbox like that and everything else outclasses you because you aren’t getting kills.
2S6 is an absolute dream to play though, if other people spawn SPAA I don’t care because im getting the kills before they do. but its still incredibly annoying because when you run into good CAS players I don’t have the option to turn off my search radar and just use TIRST to launch on them and hope they don’t notice until it is too late, because I got 2-3 other braindead idiots that spawned SPAA after me pinging and locking the guy up at 15km so he dives or is ready to maneuver. Also playing this thing like a “we have BMP-T at home” is fun, these guns have no issue shreding anything from side aspect, and i’ve been sniping light tanks from like 1500m from scout pings across the map, compared to zsu that can’t even pen a bradley sometimes, and can’t pen MBTs anywhere. Also man it goes 60km in reverse almost absolute wunderwaffe for russia with their crap reverse gears. 2S6 also benefits from not getting powercrept every patch like the 12.0 SPAA like pantsir that deals with new BS every new plane that gets added and cramed at 12.0-13.0 in ground.
Some more perspective on the SPAA vs CAS situation playing a lot of these recently. There is virtually nothing I can do to someone that slings mavs from 5-6km and has high energy and brain, missiles are not touching them, guns obviously not, and if i don’t have a 3+ story building to play around im cooked. Some maps are just BAD for spaa. Ideally I need that 3 story object to play around, LOS on the heli spawn, and not be in a crater with bad LOS for low flying CAS, thats a tall order for most maps. And even if you get the perfect position like this, you gotta deal with spawn campers, and I mean in general ground vics prowling on your side of the map. Majority of my deaths in SPAA is to these guys.
When there is multiple SPAA up there is also more pressure on me to play in more aggressive spots, which in SPAA terms is better sightlines to planes, so I can get the kill and RP/SL, and that honestly gets me killed often too, usually to getting sniped across the map by a tank.
But ya, if a CAS player just never goes within 5km or so of the field, stays around mach 1, pops up to launch mavs he can do this forever basically without recourse from anything but CAP. Theres a lot you can do with leading missiles outside of just following the radar, but not to someone going that fast and know what they are doing, the missiles just don’t pull enough. For every 50 CAS players you might run into 1 guy that does this so its not so bad.
From like the 100 or so games i’ve played SPAA this week I’d say about 75% of CAS players are terrible and just eat missiles for breakfeast if launched TIRST and no one else is pinging them, and probably half would still just job to a hard radar lock without trying to do much. I still think CAS has the upper hand in every BR bracket if piloted by someone that knows what they are doing, especially with FNF stuff, theres always a risk to dumb drops at low alt because you can still get shredded if they get a lock early enough with guns or if the SPAA can lead without it to get shots in 1-2 seconds faster.
1 Like
Not when the plane is not focusing on the AA (Note ofc not for plane-AA duels) or on snow maps. For rear shots,… people do always check their 6 when finishing drop.
Play bricks or speed bleeders, and you will find yourself hit if you haven’t pulled enough. I would say thinking half pulling is enough is a more common mistake.
The best maps for this one are 38th, pradesh or arctic, the worst ones are 2271, normandy or kursk. A bit of upwards firing can solve the viewing issue, and repositioning can hide yourself again - though finding the accurate source of your stinger from the air is not usually that easy. The smoke will only appear a few hundred meters after launch.
Hey they fixed mavD =D Now a10al’s finally good
Edit:
No it’s not. mavD sucks
The Jaguar A and E are 10.3, and have an effective strike range of 11km with the AS-30L.
At 10.3, the best you can get is the Osa with a 10.3km theoretical max range.
There is no SPAA that can protect it’s team in the BR range. Even the Tor and HQ-17 are at the edge of their max range to destroy a Jaguar, and at these distances flying perpendicular to the missile’s path is enough to have it miss. The best they can realistically hope to achieve is intercept the munitions, all that for respectively .7 and 1.0 more BR.
Love this nonsense as if people are actually trying to use these missiles at these BRs as if they out range the SPAA, I have in my thousands of games at the 9.3 - 11.3 area , and god knows how many specifically with 10.3 /10,7 seen a Jag doing 11km out strikes, I’m sorry to tell you man.
Majority of people will enter the map within the 10km radius and fire off the misses, 11km is likely to miss its target or lose the kill.
Just because it in theory can fire at that range, does not mean its effective nor useful.
Much like OSA can fire out to 10.3km range but will it really hit much past 8km ? unlikely.
1 Like
Yes
Just because you don’t see it doesn’t it mean it’s not possible. The reason you don’t see it is because France doesn’t have anything to make a lineup around 10.3.
My point was not that the Jaguar was the most effective CAS plane in the bracket, but that the Jaguar cannot be threatened by SPAAs at it’s BR, and that is fact.
If a plane carries weapons that can strike out of reach from danger, but they choose to put themselves in danger anyway, it’s not the danger’s fault.
By nature guided missiles don’t miss, they go where you tell them to, when you don’t have to choose between guiding, or dodging, missing is user error.
If your target goes into cover, it is what it is.
Missing the kill also is what it is, but by picking your target and a relatively short TTI, it’s not a big issue.
Sure if you fire one at 400km/h while dragging on the floor, the range drop, but then again this isn’t really on the missile. From the GFRB airspawn, your missile will reach 11km.
There is no usecase where striking from near max range is not useful
Again, I’m not making a point about the Jaguar’s usefulness, simply illustrating the issue with the CAS-SPAA relationship.
That’s the issue, the theoretical max range of the best 10.3 SPAA is not only lower than the effective range of the best 10.3 standoff weapon, but also of the less good standoff weapons, and it must rely on the CAS players making egregious mistakes or flying garbage like the A-10 to stand a chance.
You own the SEM, you should know what the AS-30L is capable of.
I just want to add that this is not limited to 10.3.
A-4B with bullups outranges almost all, if not every contemporary AA, swedish hunter outranges any IR slinger and so on.
Which is the issue most CAS players dont seem to get.
thats funny as I think the a4e has to go up in br due to the agm62 walleyes
Finished the 2s6 and now spading pantsir and man CAS players here are different, its like going from a bronze lobby to a grandmaster in a shooter. You virtually never get any of these free kills from airspawn, and everyone has FNF AGMs etc. and you are fighting stuff like the f15/typhoon that just dance all over you if they have a clue as to how to play.
Theres a lot to learn and get better at with manually leading SACLOS missiles at longer ranges towards manuevering targets and im not the best, but it honestly feels hopeless trying to land a hit on a plane flying at an off aspect from you 8+ KM in the pantsir.
Also the pantsir has quite the learning curve, probably need to spend at least a few hours in it to get all the systems down, and even more when it comes to aiming missiles. You gotta get a feel for where the missile is in relation to the target and lead it manually a considerable amount for it to have any chance of hitting.
A lot of people also probably dont understand difference between a point lock and target lock, I didn’t until recently.
Also IDK still but say I launch a mav with 6km tracking, at 10km+ at a point target, does the seeker pick up the guy once it gets within 6km if hes still there and decides to start moving? Or is it stuck in point lock the entire time? Im not even sure how big the FOV on the seeker is if it can and how far you would even need to move by the time it reaches 6km to be outside of it.
I mean, it can out range SPAA however it barely does, as well as that you’re making it out as if the missile doesn’t take time to travel at all in which it can be intercepted.
At 10.3 there are more effective cas planes, as they are largely better platforms.
id rather use the A10A for CAS at 10.3 than the Jaguar A due to the sheer fact it has a substantially better load out.
What you should say is its not the most effective , but longest range.
Theres a distinction between effectiveness and effective range.
Cause I bet you that an A10 will do more than the 2 kills a jag can acquire.
So this contradicts itself as an answer to what I said. for the missile to have a shorter guidance time and a higher kill chance percentage, you cannot keep both the chance of killing hte enemy high and hang 11km out without likely losing the target.
Then why bring up the fact the jaguar can fire at 11km as if it massively out ranges SPAA at its BR when in reality it barely out ranges them, also if you fire from GFRB Airspawn you are more than 11km out so yeah.
Im well aware what the As-30L is capable of, hence why im here saying this to you that I know it’s not very likely to have that sort of effect.
A10, A7D all those platforms are still extremely capable, their vulnerability isnt SPAA its CAP
I mean that is a genuinely fair point though, even the A4 in isreal at 9.3 should likely be 9.7 with GBUs etc
Su22m3 is nowhere playable bcs Q5L is strong
And I’d actually start about CAP. How are they doing worse on anti plane but still are so expensive in sp
If only there’s not so much skill requirement difference compared to casual aa
Yes, when the signal of the target is brighter than the ground signal*ground sensitivity within the fov of msl, just as how IR ones work
If you’re on your way into the battlefield, the absolute top priority should always be to check for enemy SPAA threats. No matter the tier, that’s always step one. If you fail to pay attention and get slapped by SPAA, especially when simply flying into range of your weapons, that’s entirely your fault.
I really shouldn’t have to prove that everyone always checks their six after a run, because the many people I’ve slapped with MANPADs seems to suggest there’s quite a few that don’t.
Regardless, the important point is that frontal attacks are literally always in the field of view of the pilot. Rear attack only are if they choose to look back.
Hey look! A brick that can only pull 8Gs, effortlessly dodging every single missile fired at him. So long as you have any energy in the tank, anything over 6-7Gs is usually enough to dodge missiles consistently. That does not require full inputs to achieve on most planes.
This only works if you can see the plane from over the horizon. Most of the time, that’s not the case, as that requires the SPAA to be sitting on high ground, which usually makes them a sitting duck for enemy tanks.
I’d also mention the 9M39 again, which has a caged seeker and cannot be fired in an arc.
Cover for SPAA is already at a premium, especially on the large proportion of maps where leaving the immediate spawn area invites getting sniped from random positions halfway across the map. It’s often not an option to move from cover to cover while engaging enemy aircraft.
Tracking missile trails to their source is not remotely difficult. The missile is being fired directly at the plane from the SPAA. That means all you need to do is just draw a line in your head to complete the missile trail back to where it came from. Even if it’s vague, you now know the general area where an SPAA is hiding.
First thing you need to do is to disable the stupid auto leading of the missile, bleeds way too much energy.
10 min max
What about attacking someone else when an AAA spawned?
In that vid he entered at 2-3km height, and no strela or OSA are present. At sinai he finally got some terrain after his attack, at magnot he got a 2v1 on a single ozelot. I don’t see any attempt on pop ups xD. I think I shouldn’t assume that you are trying to say dodging frontal ones is worth a mention… though full load su22 won’t dodge that anyways. Do use kh.
Oh btw, ASUS Tuf 27 inch 1440p 144hz Monitor
This is why he is using that 1x magnification so smoothly and kept his range. bruh my 14in
hop in a mig21f13 / mig23m, the main CAP force of sov 9.3 / 10.3 lineups. I could’ve made a mistake here before: subsonics do dodge stingers better than these 2. Maybe except for g91?
Map issue. Flat maps with trees and distant mountains will force a plane/heli to be high enough, or it can be the case of west coast of abandoned factory. The pradesh or italy would be better… Rhine 50/50, buildings can cover both sides.
Use the launch tube TVC wisely
The longest engagement I can remember was spinning around a small building in my impchapp to hide from a few flared enemies.
None of them strafed me for they all died to pop-ups against rapier. No crit guys left for me…(
Anyways this is again map issue, some maps good some maps retarded. Spawn camping encouragement designs should be another topic.
The 200m radius “vague”, buildings included…
For this one I’d switch to a op cas to deal with it. but nah. This topic is not for those ones.
The only SPAA it can meets that it justs barely outranges are the Tor and HQ-17.
If you manage your launch parameters, you get range, simple as.
I literally talked about the TTI, your target has about 20s before the missile gets there, it’s more than enough to get in cover provided that you know the missile is coming and that you have available cover, and since there are so few vehicles with a LWS, most people will never know thus won’t react. There are also ways to defeat LWS.
In theory maybe an Osa can intercept it, in practice I’ve never seen that happen.
If you read what I wrote, you can see that that was indeed my point.
The reason I only bring up the Jaguar is because I play it, and thus know firsthand how it works. I don’t own the A-10 or A-7, but from a glance I would wager that the A-7D is the best payload/performance compromise. The A-10 is far too much of a fat sow to not hinder the AGM-65, and so you probably need to spend quite a lot of time climbing for it to reach it’s maximum potential.
You missile will always strike where you point it provided that it’s in range, and that there’s no obstruction.
As demonstrated above, range is never going to be the issue, that leaves obstruction, or for a WT specific issue, your target dying before the missile gets there. Specific to SA weapons, your target also can’t escape the capture zone of your pod unless you commit a mistake.
For obstruction, it depends on the map, but it is ultimately something that you have control over, if you see someone already playing around something, you pick another target, it’s that simple.
For your target dying from something else, again you have some control over that as well. Pick targets that are not already engaged by friendlies, pick a group of target to operate a quick switch, there are options.
No launch is ever 100% guaranteed, but even with semi-active weapons the bulk of what can cause it to not hit the target is on the user.
Because this thread is about the alleged power difference between CAS and SPAAs in the 9.3 to 10.3 bracket. As demonstrated the Jaguar can effectively hit targets at 11km, as we both brought up the longest range 10.3 SPAA still has a lower max theoretical range than that. If you use the max effective range of the Osa, it is indeed outranged by several kilometers.
That seems relevant to the balance between CAS and SPAAs.
Moreso since we both know that the Jaguar isn’t alone in that situation, and as demonstrated getting a 11km shot isn’t some insane feat that require extremely specific, hard to attain, conditions.
If you want to see me both hit that AS-30, and then dunk on a Tunguska that can do nothing about it.
That is precisely the issue, SPAA can’t deal with even some of the worst CAS planes as long as they carry decent standoff weapons. Notably the Su-25 is a far superior airframe to the A-10, carrying better standoff weapons, but since it can’t effectively use said standoff weapons without taking massive risks, they always run dumb ordnance. In doing so the Su-25 is balanced with the SPAA of it’s bracket.