Simulator Air BR Rework — Full Technical Analysis from 1.0 to 12.7+ and Systemic Solutions

Game Discussion Simulator Battle
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25

We’re clearly talking past each other at this point, so let me address everything in one place.

1. “BRs are not based on RB stats”

Gaijin has stated multiple times that BRs are calculated from RB performance data. SIM does not have its own statistical BR calculation. SIM BRs are derived from RB BRs, with small manual adjustments on top.

Tracking KD/W‑R/SL separately per mode does not mean each mode has its own BR algorithm. It just means the UI shows separate stats.

This is the core misunderstanding.

2. “Stop whining about radar, I fly F‑5s without radar”

Personal preference is not balance logic.

You enjoying “rat play” in an F‑5 has nothing to do with how SB mechanics work or how BRs are constructed.

SB is not balanced around:

  • what one player likes
  • or what one plane can do in a niche scenario

It’s balanced (or supposed to be) around systemic performance, which SB BRs do not reflect because they are not based on SB data.

3. “F‑5s don’t have radar” / “F‑5E has a radar”

You’re correcting something I never said.

I responded to someone claiming the F‑5 has no radar at all. The point is:

The F‑5E’s radar has:

  • no IFF
  • no TWS
  • no SARH
  • no BVR
  • no long‑range SA
  • no proactive picture building

So yes, it technically has a radar, but in SB it functions much closer to “no radar” than to an actual SA‑building sensor.

That’s the distinction.

4. “RWRs exist, so radarless planes aren’t blind”

RWR ≠ radar.

RWR gives:

  • lock warning
  • ping warning
  • missile guidance warning

RWR does not give:

  • range
  • altitude
  • closure rate
  • aspect
  • IFF
  • whether the target is cold or hot
  • whether it’s 5 km or 25 km away

A radarless aircraft has zero proactive SA in SB. You only know something exists once it is already interacting with you.

That is the definition of being blind in SB.

5. “J‑7E/F‑5E beat anything WVR”

Correct — and irrelevant.

SB is not a WVR‑only mode. If you force WVR, you win. If someone forces mid‑range radar play or BVR timelines, you lose.

That’s exactly why avionics matter more in SB than in RB.

6. “If you don’t like the J‑7E, don’t fly it”

This is not an argument.

I’m talking about systemic BR logic and how SB mechanics interact with it. You’re talking about personal preference.

Two completely different discussions.

7. The actual point

SB has:

  • different spotting
  • different visibility
  • different radar usage
  • different missile support
  • different workload
  • different engagement ranges
  • different SA requirements

But SB BRs are still based on RB performance data, not SB performance.

That’s why SB matchups often don’t make sense.

This is the entire point I’ve been making.

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SB is not a WVR‑only mode. If you force WVR, you win. If someone forces mid‑range radar play or BVR timelines, you lose.

No, that’s a skill issue. It’s a YOU issue. There is NO WAY an Aim-7 or SARH can hit me. If you are in a maneuverable plane with an RWR you are pretty much invulnerable to SARH missiles.

It just seems like you have massive skill issues. I recommend you fly an F-5, a lot. Until you’ve fixed your skill issues and realise that Radar and Radar missiles (SARH in particular) are way less important than you think they are.

  • You can have perfect situational awareness without radar
  • You can defeat SARH missiles any day all day long

But you want to determine BR’s much more based on radar and SARH missiles?!?!? That’s just wrong. Get that out of your head.

systemic BR logic

There is NOTHING WRONG with the BR logic. Yes, there are outliers and over/under tiered planes. But in fact, in my opinion it’s the complete opposite of what you’re saying. It’s these rat planes that can be increased in BR (F-5, F-16 OCU), because in good hands those are the strongest planes of the BR bracket.

You’re talking about personal preference.

But everything you say IS about personal preference. You like planes with a radar and SARH missiles. That planes without a good radar should be lower in BR is just your opinion based on your preference man. You think your personal preference is the one and only truth, but in fact I think the BR system works quite well to give quite a varied and balanced match up.

27

If you genuinely believe SARH ‘can’t hit you’, that you have ‘perfect SA without radar’, and that SB BRs are flawless because you personally do well in an F‑5, then we’re clearly not discussing the same game mode. This isn’t a skill issue — it’s a fundamental misunderstanding of SB mechanics. No point continuing this, so I’m leaving it here.

28

Yesterday I had a 16-1 game in the F-16OCU. I was literally destroying the lobby and they were all shooting Aim-7P’s at me while I’m just shooting them with guns and IR missiles.
Yes, leave it here please. Dumb discussion.

29

look-up-scared

What the

30

Wow, now the MiG-29 and the Tornado have the same BR. I wish more and more bad things for this game.

31

The Tornado @ 12.0 with Skyflash DF and 9L is actually one of the strongest planes @ 12.0 IMO. Opposite of rat play, but a perfect plane for SIM

About the 13.3 Tornado, I image it would be decent as well. 4x AMRAAM and 4x Aim 9M, combined with decent speed and tons of countermeasures? You can’t put that at 13.0. It’s way stronger than any of these 13.0 AMRAAM planes (AV-8 etc) which have a worse flight model and also less missile count.

Compression in general is just a problem. Too good for 13.0, maybe not very good at 13.3. Goes for a lot of planes.

32

I’m talking about the Tornado IDS and GR.4.

33

That’s another problem, and that’s because there is no different BR’s for Air SIM and Ground SIM (!!!)
So they get BR based on Ground/Air sim in general, so strike aircraft which are very strong in ground sim also get a high BR in Air SIM

That Tornado GR.4 has 15 Brimstone missiles!!! Its like THE strongest plane in Ground SIM

No it would not be very good in air sim / dogfights. But the current system is a single BR shared for air and ground sim…

34

the humble RWR

especially on the J-7E that has a fully digital one

35

Have you ever tried using these missiles?

38

that is not true

ground sim dosent use the br system at all

39

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

40

Hello All, please remain on topic, and bring personal quarrels to DM/PMs. Remain respectful towards other forum users, thanks :)

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41

Where has Gaijin claimed that SB battle ratings are based on RB stats? Or are you just taking an AI generated statement and not even fact checking it?

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42

If this is the case then why is it that the J7E is the highest performing plane in its bracket in terms of kills to death? Or kills per spawn?

Why is it not being dominated by SA-RH equipped Phantoms?

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Screenshot_20260503-141649
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43

Let’s add a small point, the less realistic thing in this game is the weather. i don’t remember the last time I saw the sun on WT, even on those, so called, summer maps, or on those parts of the planet where the sun shines most of the times. We have hot and cold maps based on season, but not the weather.
To all this add the clouds being client side.

I didn’t fly it a lot, but the few times it was fun to play hide n seek with phantoms. Its rwr makes the difference and you just appear on their 6 without even knowing you’re there.

44

To avoid further confusion, here are official Gaijin sources explaining how Battle Ratings are calculated. All of them point to the same conclusion: BR is based on a universal efficiency metric, not on SB-specific factors.

1) Gaijin – Responding to your feedback on separate Battle Ratings

“considers frags, assists, caps… all bundled into one universal metric.”
“Efficiency… gives us a very well rounded perspective on how it’s actually being used.”

This means BR is based on aggregated player performance (kills, assists, etc.), and not on SB-specific factors like cockpit visibility, radar workload, spotting difficulty, or real flight model handling.

The same post also states:
“Before separate BRs, aircraft BR was set according to performance in Air Battles.”

This shows that BR is tied to general air battle performance, not to a clearly defined SB-specific statistical model.

2) War Thunder Wiki – Matchmaking

“Battle rating… correlates with their effectiveness in combat.”
“Grouping together units of similar efficiency.”

Again, BR is based on in-game effectiveness, not avionics, not realism, and not SB-specific mechanics.

3) Old War Thunder Wiki – Battle Ratings
https://old-wiki.warthunder.com/Battle_ratings

“Battle rating does not correspond with real-life introduction dates, only the vehicle’s in-game performance.”

This reinforces that BR is performance-based, not simulation-specific.

4) Air Simulator Battles section
https://old-wiki.warthunder.com/Battle_ratings#Air_Simulator_Battles

This section describes BR ranges, but does not define any SB-specific statistical BR system.

Summary
All official sources describe a unified, performance-based BR system built on a universal efficiency metric.
None of them define SB-specific balancing metrics.

If there is an official Gaijin source showing SB uses its own dedicated statistical BR model, feel free to provide it.

Otherwise, dismissing technical arguments as “AI-generated” is not a counterargument.

Request to Moderators
To avoid further unnecessary arguments and since all relevant official sources have now been provided, I kindly ask a moderator to close this thread. @Forum Moderators @TestandRecognise

45

Perhaps considering making your own arguments instead of just regurgitating whatever generative AI spits out?

Note that the AI has changed its response to not actually indicate that Gaijin has said that SB ratings are tied to RB performance. Also note that frags, assists, captures, etc all still happen in Air SB. Those are not metrics that are exclusive to Air RB.

All of these factors have direct impacts on what a planes average performance in Air SB is.

The fact that the battle ratings in sim are entirely different? There are planes in Air Sim that are at dramatically lower battle rating than their RB counterparts. Consider the following; in the most recent battle rating update the LF IX Spitfire was moved to 6.0 battle rating. The exact same plane is at 5.0 battle rating in sim.

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46

I agree with every point, but the last one being “11.3-12.7+” is a bit disingenuous. Should definitely separate 11.3-12.3 and 12.7+ because zero 11.3s will face ARHs even in a 11.3-12.3 bracket