Personally I’m not huge on the timer idea, but SP would be a great way to try and limit the more powerful planes. This also ties into my era separation idea, having events like 109s, 190s and 262s intercepting bomber formations or C-47 transports while the US team has to defend them in P-51s and P-47s, locking the more powerful planes behind the SP system.
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yes only SP would be ok
consider that there are so many nations and hundreds of airplanes that it will be difficult to adjust everything 100% to our taste.
maybe there should be a semi historical mode and a parallel 100% historical mode for players like you and me. …(??!)…
unfortunately you and I are a minority. most players just shout “balance pls!” and they don’t care about authenticity.
I definitely agree with you! WW2 should feel like WW2! with Axis vs Allies! and not Mexico, Switzerland and Nepal against Zimbabwe, North Pole and Peru on the map Stalingard with modern jets :D
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@Lieutenant_Camel @Octavia038
It’s just such a reactive solution and it doesn’t help the players that left the game i.e the players we need to do a better job of retaining. And it relies on Gaijin, by your own words implementing this with “Heavily reworked AI”. We’d be putting a lot of trust on them implementing in a good way that doesn’t ruin the game mode.
You also have to consider the fact that having AI make it easier to create games - will lead to players creating way more lobbies than there are players for, we’ll possibly see 5-10 lobbies with 1-2 real players in each with that system, and not nearly enough players to make these lobbies populated. I think it’s good that it takes at least 2 players in each team to start up a lobby, hell maybe we should raise it to 3, since it’s already an issue that there are multiple lobbies for a BR bracket when there’s only players for one of them online…
Keep in mind, I pretty much only fly BR:9.0+, I’m not fully aware of the player retention down at the props, maybe they literally don’t even have enough of a player base to secure 3 people in each team to start a lobby.
We need proactive solutions, not reactive as previously mentioned. Figure out why a team has 10+ players that left the game after only 1-2 deaths in EC and fix those problems instead. Our game has 100-220k consecutive players at any given time, plenty of those people are going to give SIM a try at some point. How many of those 100-220k people actually have a good experience and decide to play sim again? Probably something like 5%*. This is because of things like the horrible learning curve, economy, boring objectives and terrible default controls setups.
Let’s focus on fixing those things, even if we can bring that 5%* number up to 10%, we’ll have a massive influx on new people and lobbies will stay populated. Without running the risk of having the terrible AI compromise the game mode, and without running the risk of having players create too many lobbies than there are players for.
*I don’t know what the player retention number is, only gaijin knows. But I think we can all agree it’s probably something around 5%. It’s probably even less than that.
We’re a sinking ship with a massive hole in the hull(95% of players leaving.), let’s focus on patching that hole up, bailing water out won’t solve the problem.
that’s exactly the point where I think you’re completely wrong. I agree on other points. but not here.
haven’t you ever sit in the lobby with friends and desperately tried to start a battle? I don’t mean 8 friends, of course. I mean you want to fly on a normal day with one or two friends. we’ve spent too many hours sitting in the lobby and waiting and waiting and waiting. sometimes more time than in the cockpit and we hate it like the plague. because too much time goes by unused. I can’t count the hours.
I’m not afraid of ghost rooms. ghost rooms would still be better than too few rooms.
it’s logical that if there are more rooms, the mode has more flexibility overall. I’m not talking about an infinite number of rooms. there can be an upper limit. I can’t commit to a number right now. it would even be possible that the number of players explodes because there is finally enough room!? there are certainly fair methods to determine the number of rooms according to the number of sim players. not too short. Gaijin’s job, not mine!
but I can’t believe you are seriously asking for 3 vs 3 to start a room! I’m going to leave out history and fine-tuning completely. the lack of flexibility due to too few official rooms and poorly starting user created battles is the biggest sim problem for me.
but we are going round in circles
I would also like to mention that during ongoing battles there are always people coming and joining. at least that is the experience of my old squadron.
of course I can’t say in two sentences how the mode could become more attractive for newcomers…
too little choice and only a few almost full rooms with Greek Air Force and Co. is certainly not a solution for newcomers.
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I think you and me have very different experiences due to the fact we fly different BR’s, I just checked your profile, you seem to be more into tanks, and some props. I’ve never driven a tank in sim and mostly fly 9.0+, usually 9.7-11.3 and top tier.
Like start a lobby/fresh game? Yes, it happens sometimes, but pretty rarely, it happens sometimes during week-days at odd hours when player-count is low and people are at work/school. At 10.0-12.3 there’s pretty much always at least 1 or 2 lobbies up for each bracket(9.0-12.3). Depends on a few factors like what nation I’m flying as well. If it’s a slow day with few people on, I will obviously join an ongoing battle instead of creating another one.
*Also when the F16 was at it’s best, and mig29 at it’s worst, it was very difficult to find a lobby on American team because noone wanted to fight the OP F16, but that’s mainly a balancing issue. It’s levelled out now a bit with more Mirage2000 players and foreign F16’s’
One main issue I’m having at the moment when matchmaking, is that there’s like 2-3 Sinai lobbies, each of them are something like “1v4”, “3v2”, “2v0” and maybe one Denmark at “3v9” at one BR bracket.
A situation like this, is where I really see your ‘solution’ of making it vastly easier to create a lobby - to make the situation worse. Since the 12-24 players at that BR bracket are already spread out over 4 different lobbies - making none of the lobbies particularly enjoyable. At a moment like this, I don’t want more rooms since it will make the situation worse - and if we add AI to the mix, the rooms will just keep on being created with no limit and all of a sudden all the rooms are just PVE.
My 3v3 comment was mostly hyperbolic to make a point about already small player base being spread out over many rooms, if we had a larger player base I’d like the 3v3 thing, but it’s not appropriate right now.
I’m reading your text now. I just have to show you something…I’m flying right now
this is now a coincidence. and a perfect example of why I want more rooms.
due to a current lack of 6.0, there is now only this one room where Greek Air Force and Germit control the battle and terrorize all enemies. what does a newcomer want to do here?
a newcomer would need a second 6.0 room here. but there isn’t one at the moment. and it’s hardly possible to start one.
I can’t do anything against these two either. despite thousands of flying hours.
yes, we have very different experiences and see our perspective
I’m just a flying camel. I only get good in a good schwardron. when my people force me to go into aerial combat and not just bombing.
More rooms won’t solve the problem in your lobby, who’s to say another pro player like Greek and Germit won’t just join that new lobby and continue terrorising?
Also this brings me back to my point before, notice how pretty much every single player in your team have Zero kills and leave after 1 or 2 deaths?
Getting killed once or twice and leaving, is not being “Terrorised” by Greek or Germit, that’s someone who tried out sim and probably couldn’t figure It out. Most likely due to shit controls setups, bad objectives and watching their SL balance plummet.
This is a perfect example of what I’ve been explaining before.
I looked up the stats of a few people that left your lobby by the way,
FurStrot: only a few hours in sim, and he’s 18 kills to 65 deaths in sim altogether
DeKupro: 4h 4m in sim, he’s 4 kills to 20 deaths in sim altogether
MixGoxa: barely an hour in sim, has only ever had 1 kill altogether
Clearly, they have not been terrorised by Greek their whole time in sim. It’s obviously the learning curve at fault here. They don’t stand a chance against veterans with the way War thunder introduces you to SIM.
I count at least 16 people leaving your team, that’s plenty to start another room. Especially considering no more German/Japanese 6.0 players can join the room you’re in because it’s unbalanced, they’d be forced into the new room the players who left your team are trying to start.
The issue is not more rooms, it’s the learning curve, and everything I’ve explained in message I quoted above
You just proved my point
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I am reading …
yes, I also got out quickly because the snail doesn’t forgive you for standing and writing on the AF. however, I was also badly chopped up by the two of them.
yes it is true that frustrated players leave a room quickly. everywhere.
yes …repiar cost
a quick comment. so greek and germit are really terroists.
As you mentioned not being aware of lower tiers, the entirety of 7.0 - 8.7 tends to have no players. During an 8.7 - 9.7 rotation I was struggling to find a single match and eventually just gave up altogether, resulting in me taking a fairly long break from War Thunder as a whole. This is where bots come in. When I can’t even start a match to play a jet that I only get to enjoy in one rotation, that’s a problem. That’s 6 days that I’m unable to play that jet, meaning I only have 2 days to just so happen to be in the mood to fly it out. That goes back to your point on limiting aircraft and player choice, and it makes it really unfun to play War Thunder Simulator mode. I posted two pictures of me being unable to find any matches at 9.3 in my thread on AI, shown below. This was with the F3H Demon as my chosen aircraft.
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Was there already lobbies up that you could join though? It’s currently 4am on a weekday In Europe, I see 3 lobbies at 5.0, including this 12v11 (there’s also another 13v11 lobby and a 6v7)
I sincerely hope you’re not complaining about empty lobbies, and referring to your own that you’re trying to create when there’s already populated lobbies up?
I’m just making sure we’re on the same page, my point still stands from before regardless.
I’m afraid that on the contrary it would make the more powerful planes even more dangerous:
The players getting enough SP first to spawn a top predator will do so, and the ones who didn’t now have to fight a vastly superior adversary with little chance to survive and get into a top predator as well.
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and the gen4 fighters need the “old” controll and fm. f16 and the mig29 is pathetic and unrealistic. f16 and the mig29 have fly by wire but that not exsist in the game atm… when i try any hard turn the planes go flatspin… its okey with any plane in 3.7 but not the gen4 fighters…
no nothing. a buddy later said he had seen an “all against all” room on the same BR. Finally, my game was on and I played to the end. I didn’t watch any more after that.
when there are good rooms, of course I go in there. then I don’t sit in the lobby and try to open up.
yes I know that gaijin wants less rooms but full rooms,- but the best rooms are not the completely full ones. max 5 vs 5 or max 6 vs 6 battles are often much more interesting tactically. overcrowded rooms can also be fun but on small maps is it just chaos. for variety it is good if rooms are sometimes full and sometimes less full. otherwise it always feels the same.
even if my team is inferior, I try to do my best. (unless it’s really greek and his people, then it’s not so funny …not even in his team. because the guy doesn’t do teamwork but just wants to steal kills …no matter).
there’s nothing to be said against it. camels don’t bite, only sometimes.
by “the desired number of rooms” whether against each other or for each other (??!!)
you said it yourself, these are experiences. and the experience of my old team is that there is too little flexibility here in Sim. I don’t mean 5 minutes waiting time. I’m really talking about 40 minutes to 1 hour +. in other games and also in DCS (yes it’s hard to compare) we could always fly immediately. that’s what I mean by flexibility. I want to fly. otherwise I’ll download the waiting room simulator. if there is such a thing
waiting is one thing, the other is battles that end too quickly. so that new players don’t even have the chance to join.
@Schindibee But Schindibee now a top predator flies permanently with an OP plane. and he can permanently spawn again in an OP plane. the old SP system has proven itself for many years and was accepted (I don’t mean the timers). the players who came after 2021 don’t know the old system, but still write it’s bad.
Not for me, no.
My first few steps into Sim were when that system was still in place, and I quickly dropped it again, as I wanted a game mode where I can fly exactly the aircraft I wanted to fly. Not top predators in my case, but attackers, but still, I was forced to fly stuff I didn’t want to fly instead of what I wanted.
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