Should the me262 get a lower BR and by how much?

Machinery of War Discussion Aircraft
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Honestly, I think I’ll just block him. He seems like a great player. But when he does much, much, much better in non German planes than he does in German ones that doesn’t mean the German ones are “good” because he does good in them too.

It shows that he actually does worse in them comparatively, and that even a good player doesn’t achieve the same level of success he does in other planes. Something he seems to go out of his way to ignore, intentionally misread, and pretends to be obtuse about.

And it’s not just about win rates, but K/D. Hell, he says he played them before, so before he improved in the game and still often times did better in them.

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For engine heat problems, I solve them with MEC without losing too much performance.
For fighting, I don’t actually dogfight, I only energy fight with 109s and 190s. For close and personal dogfighting I bring a BV 155 or 109 B-1.
Sitting at high alt for a German plane achieves just as much as a Yak sitting at low alt: performance advantages. I personally prefer the high alt flavour because even if a fight gets dragged down, the performance deficit can be overcome with energy advantage.

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This is basically the totality of the prop games I have played in the past year.
It is pretty logical that I would do worse when the game has changed from 12v12 games to 16v16 games and when I am not playing Air RB on a daily basis.

What do you call it when in most games that there are multiple people crashing into each other?

The very first game I played in Bf.109 F-4 in a long time. And USA is on the same side which was not even a matchmaker preset 2 years ago.
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Look at this champion in his F8F strapped with bombs. This used to only apply to people in low tier P-47s and they used to always be on the other side.
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This is the scorecard just before 5 minutes into the match. 4 of these guys have all died due to crashing into each other and pretty much everyone else dove on the first Mosquito they could see. Did they all somehow manage to die so quickly because their planes were bad? Or did they make no effort to begin with?

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OK, so you have to constantly adjust the prop pitch. All the while performing maneuvers and looking around. For me it’s not feasible. I know some people can do that. I can’t and I would expect around 9 999 out of every 10k Bf 109 users can’t either. Now, you have to run 100% rads all the time that deliver a mighty hit to your performance.
Meanwhile Yak-3 user sets the throttle to 98% on a hot map and that’s it.

And while at low alt you can gain ticket advantage, hunt for attackers and generally kill the enemy team, while Bf 109 hovers above and achieves jack shit, then dives on Yak who sits at 2km and after 1 dodge the energy equalizes, as Yak-3 can perform INSANE dodges around 600-650 IAS and retains energy ridiculously well while doing so.

109 wins this fight if Yak-3 is on the deck or low enough to not be able to increase his speed significantly in a dive.
If Yak gets a bit of alt after slaughtering all Bf 109s teammates and securing the ticket win, Bf 109 gets 1 pass, where horrible ballistics and compession shaft him, and that’s mostly it. And remember, Yak will have several teammates, some climbing out of view. Even if 109 works the Yak towards the deck, best case he’ll achieve 1 kill before getting swarmed and stomped.

In Re.2005 I climbed for the last few matches, by the time I engaged and killed the lone climbing enemy, the match was over.
Low alt performance is the meta, because the players are worse than ever.

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If low altitude is the meta because the players are worse than ever…then why are you treating the Yak-3 if the plane is solely flown by skilled duelists who will immediately kill you after you miss a single attack?

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Because Yak-3 has all the performance advantages, has insanely better armanent (it’s about the same difference as P-51D vs C.202) it’s tiny and for whatever reason every Yak-3 player I meet can perform some insane high speed dodges. In other words - it can and will murder my team, and by the time I dive on him, I’m done for anyway, and my Bf 109 is overheating and my performance disadvantage goes from substantial to ridiculous. Even if I somehow score some stall shot kill, I’ll die to his teammates anyway.

So I have 1 chance to kill him, if he does his crazy dodge, it’s over even if I.manage to fly away. But I won’t since Yak climbing after Bf 109 will catch it more often than not, unless Bf 109 F4 user was carefully maintaining his engine for the entire match.

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If he is dodging you then he is losing energy and it also means he is at a worse position than you are. The turn performance advantage of the Yak-3 is less than 2 degrees per second under the most favorable conditions.

Also carefully maintaining the engine isn’t some act of sorcery. You open the radiators in the climb, reduce them when you actually have some speed, and throttle back if your engine starts getting too hot. This isn’t rocket science. You don’t even have to worry about supercharger gear switch altitude or anything.

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I think at 600 IAS it’s quite massive. And Yak-3, unlike Spitfires, can perform such dodge and instantly follow me matching my speed, I just don’t think they.lose much energy wbile.dodging, my experience indicates I either kill Yak in 1 pass or I’m royally gaijined.
Meanwhile not killing Bf 109 in 1 pass required some.super botched aiming, and if I fail - he has little chance to reverse and in most planes all Ii have to do is keep pressing S.
Even if Bf 109 turns a tiny bit better than some planes it may very well overheat and die before he gets me, lol

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I am not really having a problem in it.

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LOL, I score 5 and then 7 kills in 2 consecutive battles while researching italian P-47 D30 while running low alt and just shooting people in head-ons, does it mean it’s meta?

Seriously, what does it prove? When I scored 10 kills in Fw.190 D9, did that show how awesome D9 is? Or just that enemy team was pretty damn bad and got killed 1 by 1?

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You are the one arguing that the plane is bad for its battle rating. You don’t want to argue on the performance metrics. You don’t want to argue on the capability in a dogfight. You only want to argue based on your anecdotal experience of dying to Yak-3.

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And remember, since Yak-3 has about 60% firepower based off belt composition and ROF alone, then we have Berezin nuke launcher (or 2 Berezins 1-cliking people out of existence), so basically Yak-3 has twice the firepower and we haven’t even mentioned the gargantous ballistics advantage.

But indeed, it’s not just Yak and we’re going horribly off-topic.
At 4.0 there aren’t that many planes in general. But we can look around.
3.7 - Ki-44-II - worse above 5000, other than that - same speed, better armed, a lot better maneuvering.
3.7 - B7A2 Homare - basically denies any alt advantage German team can have, has 2 nuke launchers with very long range, F4 can’t touch it, the only way F4 ever wins is if he manages to get B7A2 below eventually, too bad by the time this is achieved, the team will be gone.
4.3 - F4U4 - way better armed (the range advantage is ridiculous), way, way faster.
4.3 - Typhoon Mk 1b, it can’t roll, but it does everything else better than F4.
4.3 - G.55 S0 - way better armed, insanely better at high speed, doesn’t overheat with most basic MEC, can mostly close rads, so speed is about equal, a bit worse in climb
3.7 - C.205 Serie 1 - about equal in most parameters, but doesn’t overheat with basic MEC, worse armanent, better at high speed, tough opponent
4.3 P-51 D10 - goddamn powerhouse, way better performance and armanent, worse turn, but is way better at high speed.
4.3 Pyorrmyrsky - will wipe the floor with any Bf 109 it encounters, but can’t roll and is slower, armanent pretty similar
4.3 J21A - it’s kinda slow, doesn’t really climb, but has excellent armanent and still can win a dogfight vs Bf 109s at 4.0-4.7 if he has a bit of luck to work with and Bf 109 pilot doesn’t have a whole day to work. But yeah, this one is competitive.
Yak-9T - I think it can win in a dogfight, but F4 wins on performance.
Etc.
F4 is basically facing 4.0 and 4.3, since G2 is inferior and 4.3 Fw 190 is dogshit. So for Ground RB, there’s no real choice, only at 4.7 something new shows up and suffers because nobody has time to work that Yak-9K’s energy down, you have to go 1 and done.

IMO we can make argument for 4.0-4.3 Bf 109s to be mid, and not bottom tier. Yeah, one of the best 109s scores a “mid” rank. Problem is - enemy players will not be flying “mid” planes. They’ll mostly choose a good plane and wipe the floor with “mid” Bf 109 F4/G2 and oftentimes G6 too. There’s nothing special about Bf 109s, their advantage is usually easy to counter and once it’s gone, 109s don’t have any real options.
F4 used to compete with XP-50 that wiped the floor with it. It used to compete with Wyvern, that wiped the floor with it. Used to compete with J2M2 that wiped the floor with it.
Now it competes with XP-55, Fireball and Yak-3 that wipe the floor with it.
When these are not encountered or they are piloted by dogshit players - yaaaay, it can work.
Nothing more fun than counting on about 1/3 of enemy team being absolutely horrible to have a chance. And yeah, they USUALLY indeed are horrible. But when they kinda know how to dodge and press S - all I get is frustration, sorry, can’t do it./

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But I do.
Yak is waaay faster at all normal combat altitudes probably by about 60km/h on the deck (100% radiators will slow 109 down a lot), may climb a bit worse, but since it is way better at high speed, it’s excellent at denying energy advantage, has twice the firepower and its main armanent has a ton better ballistics. And finally - it turns better. Not by much, but what it means is, if all else fails, just hold S, even if F4 would turn slightly better under best conditions, in game it would perform worse because of 100% radiators and overheating.

So, once again - one of the best 109s is mid. And unlike other mid planes of better nations like of course Soviets or Murrica, it can’t rely on other aircraft doing the job better (or just filling the performance gaps of 109 with their own strengths) as the alternative (190) is so much worse.

Now, back on topic, 262 is absolutely useless which is nowadays nothing special in the generally sub par German techtree, would not recommend, Ta-152H having “some ways” to defeat Yak-3U is not worth grinding entire tree for. I mean, if someone wants the post war jet gameplay, then I wish him all the best. Playing Germany for props and early jets is a fool’s errand.

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I haven’t seen a Ki-44 in 10+ games.

Air spawn gimmick mobile. Also not in the tech tree.

Both of these climb worse and not insignificantly so. F4U-4 also loses turn fight to Bf.109F.

It’s also much slower.

It is basically worse in most parameters outside of firepower.

High speed and running away isn’t the meta. The plane has bad rudder compression so good luck for most players making high speed attacks. It’s climb performance and low end acceleration is also worse. Also a premium that goes on sale like twice per year.

It’s a better G.55. It is also still slower and also has low dive speed.

The J-21 is not a good plane outside of armament. It’s slow, climbs poorly, and also has some of the worst thermals of any prop plane.

Basically…in order for you to be satisfied…I think we would need to move all the Bf.109s down 2.0BR steps because a jack-of-all-trades plane should not have any performance disadvantages against similar BR planes.

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LMAO, it’s effectively faster, as it can run 35% rads with 88% prop pitch on hot maps. 109 can only survive with constant prop pitch tweaking, which requires 3rd party software or cockpit view to work. Typical MEC Bf 109 will be well into orange temps with rads fully open during merge and the only way it outruns G.55 is by cooking itself to death, so basically the only direction it can go is towards the AF.

C.205 S1 is better at high speed, rolls better, doesn’t overheat amywhere as bad, so it’s faster in practice, it’s equal or better in climb because again, it doesn’t overheat anywhere as bad. Late game vs overheating 109 it wins in a dogfight, but yeah, if the map is cold and 109s engine is fairly fresh, F4 will win reliably if 205 is left with no room to dive.

F4U4 has go-to excellent flaps and can beat F4 by using them and also by using gear on a downward spiral. It outranges 109 by a mile, which means 109 starts the fight from.defensive.position and/or while already suffering from damage. Oh and it’s faster on the deck by a lot. But it kinda overheats, so there’s that,.it requires sacrificing quite a bit of power.

Typhoon climbs a bit worse than F4, but it’s way faster, turns waaay better and is waaaay better armed + has EZ MEC. If F4 doesn’t kill Tiffy in 1st pass, he’s getting shredded from 900m away.

J21 with some alt can fight 109 all day, and has a great chance to win via reversal due to armanent.

F4 was balanced when it had very good firepower.
Nowadays it is horrible (I mean firepowe, plane is mid), C.205 S1 has it worse at 3.7 but Italy is treated like Germany 2.0,so I’m hardly surprised.
So yeah, F4 can win a head on semi-reliably (not fully reliably as Bredas have way better range!) with a total of 1 plane, while everyone else can and most often will commit quite a bit due to huge range and firepower advantage.

D10 may not be “meta”, but it’s essentialy D30 at 4.3. It can absolutely work, especially since you can douse most German planes with bullets from way beyond their range.

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This caps it’s top speed out at 505kph on the deck. Bf.109 F-4 can run 25% radiators and 100% throttle indefinitely and still be faster than it.

You mean the flaps that it cannot deploy until ultra low speed due to Gaijin changing the way they were modeled? Also gear out on a downward spiral is still inferior to prop-pitch-airbrake.

Flaps on Typhoon got nuked even more than Corsair or P-47.

J21 is even more abysmal dogshit than the F6F-5N.

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On the deck maybe, though I’ll test it because these numbers look a bit too optimistic.

Press G vs manual prop pitch mid fight you have to press for quite a bit, because this is a setting one needs precision adjustment too. Once F4U4 slows down, it can do some tricks with flaps. 109 flaps will deploy after a week. My go-to maneuver was doing whatever will slow me and the enemy down to slam the flaps and get the shot I need. It’s generally fun to be able to have a “trick”, 109’s only trick is PP airbrake which is again, maybe utilised by 1 in 8k Bf 109 users.

That’s ok as Typhoon doesn’t need flaps.

J21 is even more abysmal dogshit than the F6F-5N.

It can and will score a kill if 109 fails his one pass - 13mm guns can absolutely reach to over 1000. That’s the thing. The only planes I felt comfortable fighting in J21A were 109s - they did not have the huge speed advantage, they do not have high velocity guns, and the fact they are 2000m higher doesn’t matter, it’s not G55 that can slam you at 740km/h, 109 will have to slow down anyway.
J21 is a horrible plane overal. But it’s just fine vs German planes

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im not 100% sure but i dont think you can rlly do anything against a 109 that plays it even slightly correct sure against a fw190 its not that hard to win probably but a bf109 can kill a j21 very easy

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Thing is, it has a ton of guns and a bit better turn if it has energy.
So the idea is to either hit 109 in a head-on or in a reversal. If you have more energy, you are golden.

Of course a calm 109 user with enough time will work you down and kill you. But they usually don’t, as German teams are melting horribly and pressure is usually on them.

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i didnt know that