They really aren’t though.
They absolutely are, they get out turned by virtually everything, aren’t that good at climbing, have trash energy retention, minengeschoss does garbage damage, oh and their guns are incredibly low velocity.
“But I do well in them!”. Good job, and you do much better in other planes. Being able to make a bad thing work by being super risk averse, and hiding in the stratosphere to dive on easy targets the same you do for other stuff doesn’t make it good.
But I do well in them!
Spoiler
What a terrible time for statshark to be broken
What is virtually everything in regards to turn rate? Does a P-51 out turn it? Does a P-47? What about La-5? La-7? Or does “virtually everything” just mean Spitfire and Zeros?
What planes at the same BR out-climb their Bf.109 counterparts? Please do tell.
I’m not even going to bother going into energy retention or generation.
Oh according to statshark he does. But he does much more well in virtually any other plane.
I have played 262s.
They didn’t decompress.
I wpuld be mighty surprised if La-7 did not outturn G6.
And yeah, turn is only small part of the equation.
There’s also mediocre speed, constant overheating and absolutely dogshit armanent.
On the plus side, the cumpetitive dueling br0s can do some amazing stall shots and get killed while doing it outside of dueling/sim.
Nowadays Bf 109s mostly get clapped by Yak-3, 3U, Fireball, XP-55, F4U4/4B but yeah, they can do fairly well vs Spitfires at some tiers,.but Brits are not doing that great either.
On the other hand, axis now has damn good Re.2005 VDM at 6.0, which can kinda help with the LF mk IX/3U infestation, too bad Germans are mostly playing against them, lmao
2 Likes
I feel like just give me-262 an airspawn and it will be fine, I manage to get 5 kill with Jabo because it has airspawn, the normal ones just pain to climb, so slow everyone already on top of you and doesnt help by the time youre there half of your team is gone, the energy advantage is absolutely important.
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I tried Jabo and it was pain.
Everyone went head-on, showered me with
50 cals and then dodged my shells with about half an hour to spare.
In dogfights the plane was surprisingly good, but even at 350m people can dodge MK108 all day as long as they keep going 500+km/h, which is a normal dogfighting speed for a jet. A half a mile lead has to be taken, so enemy has plenty of time to change his course.
With 4xMG151/15 262 would be actually pretty fun. Ot with 2 MK103s. But since historically it made no sense, we’re stuck with a useless plane.
Yeah one can go hunt bombers and die 19/20 times vs Tu-4 or G8N1.
Im still trying it out, only had 6 game with it but had better experience overall
I usually go for deflection shot, thats the best way to get kill but you need some practice with leading, yea the gun is absolutely trash with range compared to defa or mauser bk27, i usually shoot at 500-600m but only 300m for mk108 but it has been reliable so far as long as you hit.
I think there probably some proto Me-262 with uprated engine they should add.
I mean, 262 was basically very easy to customize thanks to all guns sitting in a huge empty space in the nose. All one needed were some bolts and nose cone with some holes cut in right places.
Problem is, in late 1944 nobody had time to customize armanent and deliver x types of parts and ammunition, and for killing B-17s quad MK108s were absolutely great, these were not deflection shots, and the rounds held their speed very well, so fire from between 700 and 300m, disengage, if pilot sprays anough, he’ll hit a few and bomber is down, all he has to do is catch the correct aiming point for the time needed to fire ONCE.
But this is WT, where bomber gunners are 3-plante stabilised superhumans, so 262 is basically dead when facing G8N1. And most opponents are fighters. No sane man would equip 262s with 4 MK108s if average enemy was a fighter jet with super-aware pilots capable of pulling high G evasive maneuvers 24/7.
In such case they’d slap.whatever high velocity armanent they had on hand which worked. And we know 262 could fit 2xMK103 no problem, just like it could fit up to 6 MG151/15 if needed.
In other words - we have extremely unrealistic setting for 262, and we expect it to do well with historical armanent, which is, honestly, absolutely garbage.
People can dodge MK108s with good degree of success even of I react to their dodges right, they can roll and turn out.of the way faster than thr point of aim can be adjusted in many cases.
Vs MK108 only people fully unaware or semi-stalled will fail to dodge.
In G56 when Me-262 was facing me, I was like “now small dodge and he’ll never hit because he now has to switch the lead by 150m the other way” and it worked flawlessly.
I died from 262 a few times, either because I was super slow or made a huge mistake (when 262 is approaching you at 700km/h, the shell will be approaching you at 700m/s, which requires a bit more.effort.to dodge, if you perform typical 0.effort energy saving dodge, you’re cooked).
Me-262 was supposed to get MG213s, but the war ended before it happened. Would be fun to have 4 20mm cannons firing 110+g shells at 950+m/s at 1200+ rounds per minute each lol.
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I played Bf.109 F-4 the other day and it was about as good as it’s always been. The average German player is just worse than ever though with most of them rushing in on the deck.
Bf.109s have good climb rates but it’s irrelevant if the person flying them thinks they should just do flat turns at 500m and hold the trigger down in a head on and never waiver.
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They are worse, but also they get absolutely rinsed because they have worse armanent, they overheat, and they are facing pay2winnin’s Yak-3, and also they have Fw-190 A5 around their BR, which flies like a goddamn brick.
Oh and now on top of XP-55 and Yak-3s there’s also the Fireball making sure Germany loses every 4.0-4.3 game.
I won just over half of my games and I haven’t touched this game mode for the better part of a year. Perhaps it’s just a lack of skill.
If you won “just over half” it is bad news, because a good player in a good plane with a bad team should do way better.
The most important skill in Air R WT is aiming, and I’m kinda sure you didn’t de-learn it magically. You also did not magically forget how to maneuver and what lines to take.
Also it’s funny you found a way to try some “skill issue” low IQ trolling, while I’m talking about German teams performance in general. When I fly other nations, if I’m on a team with Germany - there’s a huge chance of losing. If I’m against Germany - it’s a guaranteed win (Bf 109s are free kills) unless Germany is paired with Soviets, then it gets a bit more tricky, though US recently recived a ridiculously OP pay2win plane, so at least at 4.3 thinks may be different, with Soviet + German team still losing.
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Team success is complete RNG.
The moment any kind of brain cells are involved, the 109s can force the fight at higher alts, where the only option a Yak-3 would have is suicidal headons from below. Dragging the fight to lower alt is possible, but the Yaks better have good defensive flying skills.
Spoiler
5km is the magic number
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The whole “X nation players are just bad” is about as tired an argument as one can make. Especially when minor changes to line ups can have insane impacts on win rates for nations. It’s just an easy way to hand wave away issues very clearly shown by statistics and averages.
And no, you “doing well” in some of them, when you do leagues better in non German planes doesn’t mean that they’re good.
If you look at his stats, he did well in the BF109s. But then he did much, much, much better in Russian and other planes. It’s like saying you can do “well” with stock planes, it isn’t untrue but it’s not because of the plane being good or equivalent to a spaded one. And you’d do much better if it was spaded and a good plane.
My stats in Russian planes are ancient history at this point though. They are from when the matchmaker was capped at 12 v 12 and not 16 v 16.
One player getting 2-3 kills will have larger impact on outcome of a smaller game.
Ok, so Bf 109 F4 sits at high alt and what exactly does he achieve?
Any kind of prolonged dogfight naturally gravitates towards lower alt.
And Bf 109 even at 6km will have advantage only for a short period, because you know, what happens then?
Engine overheating.
@Perinvisus I have nothing against FeetPics other than the fact he’s a troll and “cumpetitive br0”, so he can’t accept anyone disagreeing with him, without dragging the discussion into the sewer.
The point is - I have around 55% WR in Do-335 and my performance in it is horrible. What does that prove, when discussing the plane itself other than “loofah can’t aim Mk103s”?
Doing fine in Bf 109 is entirely possible. Still it’s not a good plane IMO outside of some lower BR exceptions.