If the He 162 keeps going lower we will have a German variant of the BI. Lets not do that, and instead have the devs include a tutorial system that teaches players skills needed to utilize high skill floor planes (like teaching how to use speed differences to energy trap enemy planes).
In regards to the OP topic, a -0.3 BR on all 262s would be nice, but +0.3 BR to ALL jets above the 262 would be even better.
You see way less complaints about the He 162 because (almost) nobody flies it.
I mean the 7.0 non-airstart Me 262 A-1a and the He 162 A-2 require similar play styles, have a rather high skill level to use them and have similar problems. The top and dive speed difference of a 162 to a 262 is minimal - but it has some advantages vs a Me 262:
But it is the same with the standard “non-airspawn” 262:
It takes ages to build up some speed and altitude to work with, so in most cases one of the teams is usually (almost) dead when you are ready for combat.
Even in full downtiers (and you are the fastest guy on both sides) you can’t afford to go below 2 km or get slower than 600-700 kmph - there are always props coming from low earth orbit able get up to ~900 kmph in a dive.
So you need a hell of patience and have to wait for mistakes - that’s why i take 18 minutes of fuel on maps without Roland SAMs - it lasts 25 minutes with 98% thrust.
This is the claim of the week man.
Seriously - we had a similar exchange in the past (link) - i still admire your passion to fight BIs in order to develop better tactics to fight them, but there are lightyears regarding combat effectiveness of a BI and a 162.
If you are able to show me any average skilled solo player able to score constantly 3 KpB (like described in this post) in a BI whilst flying a He 162 i might change my mind. We talk about Air RB…
Whilst the idea is not bad it distracts from the core issues:
The 162 and (non-airspawn) 262 are not able to change the outcome of a match on their own as they have to rely on a “still alive” team.
If you analyze player skill on average at their BR ranges and the average game play / developments in Air RB battles you can see a clear pattern:
So whilst a skilled pilot has often zero problems to turn around 1 vs 4s vs way slower planes vs average opponents it becomes a mission impossible in a 262 or 162 as you are usually the last guy alive and you play 1 vs 6-10 on average.
Therefore you have always a bunch of guys behind you and even if you are the fastest guy alive your only chance to score kills are the guys below and in front of you.
Subsequently the idea of energy traps is just a theoretical pov - setting up those traps require time and maximum 2 opponents in range as they make you extremely vulnerable as you get slow and you suffer from a very bad low speed acceleration.
You can’t use min fuel as you get camped in case you land.
Limiting a BR increase to jets above the 262s won’t change anything. I mean we talk about 262s starting at 6.3 - and the performance gap in the jet ranges vs competitors is way higher than 0.3.
But - in order to end with something positive - gaijin has actually reduced the gun dispersion of the 50 mm cannon.
I tested this 2 days ago - and follow up shots are now much more easier. But the 50 mm HE shell still underperforms like hell. I mean i caught 2 Tu-2 as stationary targets on their forward airfield. 1st run 3 hits on #1 - including center mass fuel tank resulting in a fire, but no explosion - 4 hits on target #2 in the second run.
The first guy survived (ofc, what else) and the second guy died after hit #4. Made out of stalinum these Tu-2s…
The only reason the average BI player is good (3 kpb) as seen in the wild is because they’re usually the better players in the overall playerbase. Put them in a 162, and they will still get 3 kpb. I’ve seen actual average players (overall) that would get 0/1 kills in the BI, get themselves killed, and one of them even called the BI bad (lol, lmao).
My main concern with the 162 at lower BRs is when good player get in one, the props have no way to fight back other than with exquisite team work or luck. The reason being that the moment a 162 forces any kind of high speed chase, it turns into an energy trap in favour of the 162. The only thing props can do is keep themselves safe by climbing better, and that will not get them to killing the 162 any faster.
It’s just sad to see Zeros not be able to do anything other than doing suicide headons, which is a reality with the 162 at 6.0 right now. Yaks break their wings attempting to chase a 162.
When all opponents are slower than the jets, the option to kill the entire enemy team is very well achievable, even vs half a team. It all depends on the slower plane’s teamwork abilities (low chance to encounter).
Kind of like saying “This vehicle is great” then tagging spookston who plays warthunder constantly for 10 years, he proves nothing when it comes to a vehicle performance.
Yeah, you should be able to play the me-262s with your WW2 ground lineup, so maybe lower it for ground RB only.
Yeah sadly the only one that can be used with ground line up is the Narwhal or the Event one… which sucks. Which is dumb because the jabo is 7.0 and because it has 2 more guns … which are bad its an entire .3 higher.
Most players in air rb operate at around 1-2 braincells, getting kills against air rb randoms cannot be the basis for the discussion of plane performance since you can do well against the average player even in vastly inferior planes simply because they don’t know how to play their planes.
The 262 is objectively the worst performing jet at its BR, that’s a fact by any hard metric you can pull up to support any real argument that isnt “i watched some guy on youtube get kills with it”.
The 262 was the first jet i really got into, and I’ve played over 800 matches in the basic A1a and the U4 (this was before the Jabo got introduced) and once i switched to an actually good jet like the f80 i instantly knew that i had been fighting an uphill battle against the planes performance the entire time. Night and day difference flying something that doesn’t struggle to perform. Now while that can be rewarding in its own way, it’s not a balance argument.
As for if it should go down? Probably not. It’s a shame the 6.7 version with two guns is so rare or we could see how well it performs there, but as it is moving things down only serves to push it into more fights with superprops where all it can ever realistically hope to achieve against a skilled opponent is a head-on attack (obviously to your disadvantage because of your guns).
Hey there,
I am a average or below average Warthunder Air RB player, but I have enough experience since I am playing this game since 2016. The 7.0 Me 262 would indeed need a 6.7 BR, at least for the A1 Ground Spawn model. If you look at the Pulkzestörer variant with 50 mm at 6.7, you can analyze a little bit how it would perform at this BR, flight-performance wise. It can outrun almost every plane, which is a big plus. But you are mostly toast if you try to use excessive maneuvers to dogfight. It is still best at Boom and Zoom and purely as a strike aircraft. After each pass, however, you need a lot of set up to recover if you play against players with some experience, which at this BR are plenty… we are not talking about a BR of 3.0. He does only have a + against attentive pilots, he can bring them to the deck for other friendly players to snack them up. However, even with a airspawn, you will encounter some problems with aircraft that have an airspawn and/or can climb better and have a good energy retention. You could argue that the 50 mm is really tricky and the A1 would do better….but if it has no airspawn, and the 30 mm ballistics are really tricky going beyond 600km/h, which is the speed you want to have to make a safe pass. At those speeds, you need almost to go point blank in a straight line and that only happens if you have unresponsive players or players allready engaged in a fight. Also, the damage model is fragile…you need only a few .50 cals to leave you in a severe disadvantage. If I make a pass on a plane on the deck, i am mostly only safe from shots at 750 km/h. Even glancing shots can make you underperform on this plane. So yes, this would be a sensible solution.
After playing other aircraft at that BR, they suck in comparison.
It’s not that great honestly and the 7.0 lineup for Germany doesn’t exist for most players.
I started spading all of the me262s this week excluding the 50mm one as i have done that one already.
I found the matchmaking to not be in favour of the already mediocre Me262 A1 Jabo and A1U1
There are only 9 x 6.7 aircraft. Only 1-2 thats played consistently. Being the 2x spitfires. BI in there but an oddity. So the chance of a downtier is rare vs the chances of an uptier.
Its more than capable at 8.0. Ive been one shot by those things in conquerors a lot
I wish that was true
More context was it a 1v1 or were you preoccupied fighting someone else?
Yeah the guns delete planes but they have the worst velocity. The amount lead you have to pull for someone 400m infront of is almost double other fighters.
Lucky to hit a plane at 600m in a tail chase
The 262 Polk is horrifically inaccurate and the 262 platform in general sucks.
Several occasions of my ammo being blown or all my turret getting wiped from a single shell. As for aircraft I kick the hell out of 262s in props easily. Just CAS being unbalanced and uncountered
The 50mm me262 gun has had an accuracy buff recently
It is technically seen not a buff if they just reduced their nerf from some years ago.
Me262 is out-accelerated by the F80A5
Me262 is slower than F80A5 under 2.3 km, it is faster at 5km altitude by 20 whole km/h!
F80A accelerates slightly better
F80A turns significantly better except for instantenous turn at 700-785 km for massive GS and enormous SEP of -182 m/s - when both can barely proce acceleration around 2-3 m/s
This is just one comparison. Compare it with Su-11, F2H-2, F84B and it gets stupid.
It’s roughly comparable with the F80A but lacks any real speed or acceleration advantage to really dictate an engagement against the superior turning aircraft.
