Lets just ignore all the cons it has to the HSTV-L.
Regardless, 2S38 could go to 10.7 though.
@Perinvisus
If PUMA is overtiered, then move it down.
China has pretty sad top tier, I don’t know why are you bringing them up lol.
Source ?
2 Likes
Years ago I went wallet warrior mode and purchased the Chinese new year package that comes with three cold war MBTs and add the 122MT on top of them, sounds like it is better that I stay with them and don’t go higher, probably will research that TD with ammunition performing close to 3BM42 and that 8.3 ztz that looks like a direct upgrade to the T-55A and stick to them until the end.
Top tier ones are just gimped RU tanks with better reverse speed.
Anyone complaining about top tier China is certainly not doing it for in-game reasons and is driven by real life biases.
3 Likes
How can one fit all these conspiracy in while being this wrong is beyond me. In no world PUMA is overtier and in no world it is worse than 2S38
1 Like
People have trouble being objective about the 2S38 because it is a very frustrating tank to fight. But when you look at the vehicle, 10.3 is an appropriate BR.
I will say I’m really tired of people saying it’s better than the HSTV-L.
1 Like
That’s not at all how it works, MANPADS (e.g. Stinger, Igla, Mistral etc. ) tend to use Rolling Airframe guidance methodologies so in effect can only make dual plane maneuvers, which is why there is an erroneous G-Averaging Coefficient attached to the Overload of the FIM-92 / Mistral.
The issue is that the MANPADS article assumes that the Igla, Stinger (and to an unknown degree the Mistral ) all use the same methods being;
the use of “Bang-Bang” actuators
and an “Open” control Loop
As the Stinger (among other issues, like the Lack of the Optical contrast, lock-on range extension mechanic, and resultant underperforming Seeker) uses both proportional actuators and a Closed Guidance loop, said assumptions do not apply to the STINGER, but would the FIM-43 Redeye as discussed in the following report on the issue, which Gaijin have yet to action, which is somewhat odd after 7 months (so far) since the report was accepted.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/yUohrEMuQLna
Huh? Auto canon with 250 pen in 10.3 is fair?
1 Like
Stinger is probably one of the best examples of how buffs (even if historical) would make stuff much harder to balance and might lead to them being worse off in the end.
It getting more G load, photocontrast and 6km range against helis would automatically put something like LAV-AD at 11.3, making it face Kamovs and FnF munitions on a regular basis.
I genuinely think that LAV-AD would do much worse at 11.3 than it does now at 10.0 where it can club vehicles with dumb ordnance like Su-25s.
tbh if it works correctly facing karmov isn’t much of the problem (but 11.3 still too high for MANPAD base SPAA maybe 10.7) plus it’ll benefit a lot of stuff that rely on stinger only
(if you think historical stinger are scary you might change your mind when you see historical Mistral)
Why would it specifically need to go up in BR, why not treat it and the other impacted IR SAM launchers as the new yardstick for said BR, it would certainly make the Pantsir less of an issue since the IR SAMbush playstyle would actually become reliable and so limit their performance significantly prior to the introduction of IIR F&F ordnance.
This does after all impact most nations, and you can see that with just how many now have a C&P SA-8 & -13. and only needs to bridge the gap until things like the MIM-23 or Rapier “Field Standard A / -B / -C” etc. turn up to provide longer range performance and serve as the longer range component of SAM systems
Right back at you, surprising to see someone so incredibly wrong. Nobody uses the PUMA to speed run nukes for a reason, but they absolutely use the BMD4 and 2S38. Both in the same rough BR range. And the Spike Puma sits at 11.0, the singularly highest BR of any IFV. I hardly ever see anyone even bringing either Puma, I do regularly see BMD4 and 2S38, as in virtually every game.
I don’t think a missile going 670m/s would threaten any helicopter with MAWs, especially at 5-6km ranges.
I doubt they’d benefit as it would be a massive buff that has to be followed by a massive BR change.
I don’t know if the linked reports would also cover the Mistral(Since I don’t have similarly detailed sources to hand), but they would at least serve as a basis to correct where Gaijin has made errors in the technical understanding and give them an opportunity to revise them.
Heat Maps. Russia usually varies between 60-80% month by month at the higher BRs. Other nations seriously struggle. It’s why I find the assertion that some stuff is “entirely fine” and “BRs” are fine, or even “need to go up” hilarious when they don’t align with win rates, at all.
bro the german spaa at toptier is simply horrid with only 4 very much nerfed missles, the 2nd best spaa is the ITO90m in the swedish and french tt.
Plus, having a good tank does mean fun and counter to KH38MLs
Not really, no. Because Manpads are currently pretty gimped. They can be easily dodged or outmaneuvered by any half aware pilot. Same for Roland type missiles. SPAA is meant to “counter” CAS. If it can’t reliably do that, it’s pointless. There doesn’t need to be a “parity” same way there’s no parity between CAS and tanks on the ground.
Because other AA vehicles exist ?
You can’t just massively buff something and leave it at the same BR, it doesn’t make any sense, especially if you consider that Stingers are decent against planes at their current BR, so buffing them massively would create massive unbalances.
It’s interesting how perception and reality don’t necessarily align. FlaRakRad was moved down in BR a tiny bit for a reason. Because it’s arguably one of the worse SPAAs. People demand tanks of nations such as Germany, America, etc go up in BR, when their win rates are often quite bad.
The use of pseudo imaging, dual band seekers confers effective immunity to standard Flare compositions (and should also cover DIRCM as well).
According to your heat map, only nation that seriously struggle is the US.
