I already addressed this. The issue I described is too big of a gameplay problem for true realism to be taken into account. A lot of the people who play RB do it for better rewards and more skill-based gameplay rather than full accuracy. The people who use the SB2C’s bomber spawn usually don’t care about historical dive bombing accuracy and more likely just want an easy advantage to get some easy points that come from a gameplay loophole.
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Whilst i see your points - i do agree with previous posts that approaching targets for dive bombers above 4 km altitude is in fact a realistic attack profile; you find various sources describing WW 2 sorties flown this way in order to avoid light flak.
From my perspective the current SB2C spam just shows the downfall of prop Air RB in this BR range. I even stopped playing my beloved B7A2 as it hurts to see how their players waste the potential of their planes.
I recommend to any player complaining about them to play a few dozens of matches on Pacific maps. Just use the UK 3.7 P-47 or the US 3.3 Hellcat and outclimb them - they have zero chance to regain the energy of their air spawn and are sitting ducks mid game.
Regarding bomber hunting with SB2Cs:
- Every bomber pilot getting killed by a SB2C should ask himself how a much slower aircraft is able to get in gun range.
- Especially those guys in 4 engine bombers with a 1 km higher strategic bomber air spawn can easily avoid them with climbing and choosing alternative paths to bases.
- Even Bv 238s are fast enough to outrun SB2Cs if they managed to get above 5,500 meters; the SB2Cs are slow as f*ck at any altitude and have little to zero engine power at higher alt.
Regarding fighter hunting with SB2Cs:
- A SB2C is even easier to avoid in a fighter. Nobody forces anybody to fly straight into higher enemies without trying to neutralize their initial air spawn advantage.
- The majority of fighter kills by SB2Cs are guys who either see head-ons as viable strategy or guys accepting fights in unfavorable conditions.
- Killing distracted enemies (3rd party kills) is not connected to SB2Cs, this works with any plane.
My view on SB2Cs:
- Easy to avoid for players with some experience
- Lousy high alt (>5 km) performance
- Abysmally bad FM if u use a HOTAS in Air RB
- Extremely limited plane
Regarding your proposal of removing medium alt bomber spawn:
- We will see a human colony on Mars before that happens.
- Not possible if the SB2Cs are used in its intended role as otherwise they won’t get near a base.
Edit:
Regarding the FM - i prefer stable aircraft which fit to my generic profile and play style (one pass kills, good turn, air brake and good high alt performance).
The Helldiver was for me a real pain to use (for BP task 20,000 mission score, 78% WR, 35:2 air kills) as i use the auto-trimm function but fly with deactivated instructor slides.
The plane is highly unstable at low and very low speeds and too “nervous” for me at the yaw axis - and based on various replays i watched mouse aim made them fly like on rails.
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It’s a helldiver literally all you have to do is not headon the thing or just fly away from it in level flight because it’s slow. They’re harmless if you have some common sense and any spacial awareness. You’re complaining about a bomber that can only go fast in a dive and only turn a single time before losing all it’s speed and becoming a free kill meanwhile things like XP-50s, P-38s, Brigands, etc will be at the same altitude or higher at the same time you’d even see a helldiver get in range that can catch you and have equal or more powerful armaments. This is a pure skill issue through and through.
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While I do agree that the SB2C is outclassed by pretty much any other plane, I still think it’s a problem that could improve air RB at this BR if it was fixed. Especially considering that the rank the plane sits at is a sort of turning point where you have to step up your game to keep up with ever increasing RP demands, having to learn to avoid a small aircraft diving you at .5 mach on top of all that can be jarring. The SB2C isn’t good at what most players use it for but it can be a very easy way to pick off unexperienced players and get to bases long before others do, it’s utilized in a very cheat-ey way and I don’t like the fact that it is.
Taking a detour to avoid them just lengthens the boring and soul-sucking bomber grind which is already painful enough considering a lot of fighters can climb to your altitude before you even get any bases. Seriously, high altitude bombing can be the worst thing in the world sometimes, and it doesn’t even guarantee that you’ll make it to your goal.
It’s true that any plane can kill distracted enemies, but it seems unfair for this plane to be able to keep up with the faster fighters due to its huge potential energy, allowing it to swoop in and steal some easy kills from dogfighting friendlies. Normal bombers usually don’t do such things because they are supposed to use their altitude to evade lower threats, rather than to instantly burn it for a quick burst of speed that can be used for non-bomber purposes (such as picking off distracted enemies during the early fights).
This plane can beat some of the fastest interceptors to bombing targets even if they trade all of their altitude for speed, I think an interceptor spawn would be more fitting for the plane without nerfing it into the ground. I haven’t seen any enemies going for them when they do their bombing runs anyway.
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This was never about a skill issue, I never mentioned being personally killed by them and I don’t have much of a problem fending them off except when there are 2 or 3 viciously attacking me at once. This post was more about addressing the misuse of the aircraft and the consequences that it has on gameplay and progression for users of the plane and their fellow teammates/enemies.
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From my pov prop Air RB especially around BR 3.7-4.3 is broken far beyond repair - and focusing on an ugly USN plane won’t change anything.
Regarding the rest of your post:
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Imho you have to take a step back and try to see wt as it is: A video game optimized to be played by kids in order to earn money with them.
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Just watch a random Air RB replay at this BR range and analyze player experience and play styles - it boils down that you are surrounded by rookies and kids; and they play like rookies and kids.
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So most of your points have to be seen from their perspective as they are the main customers for gaijin.
In other words: Air RB was intentionally reduced to a plain grinding tool and your views as a more mature player are irrelevant if the myriads of kids and fresh players are throwing money at gaijin like there is no tomorrow.
Have a good one!
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I think one point is that there are lots of them at the moment due to the battle task “Legion Arsenal” that requires playing it (in AirRB), and just it being the free battle pass vehicle anyway. Within a few weeks you’ll see a lot less of them, and they won’t be very important or “battle changing” at that point.
I played quite a few games where there were 3 or 4 of them, and it’s not pretty. But this can also apply to a lot of vehicles… especially the battlepass ones, but even normal tech tree ones when you get 3 or 4 of them who are dedicated to doing maximum damage it’s not pretty either.
On their own they’re great for “destroy ground targets with a bomber” tasks, but other then that, if you see just one of them on a team they’re generally not a problem.
(I don’t think they’re even good for “destroy bombers” tasks as there are plenty of other vehicles better suited – even fighters with airfield takeoff).
So if I’m understanding this, we want a mediocre dive bomber to begin at altitudes where it cannot dive effectively? Because it can shoot down aircraft that it reasonably should not close the distance with unless through spectacular mismanagement?
Hate to see your take on the T18.
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I support this with both hands. I was just playing the PBJ and every second game I got killed by an SB2C. And this is when playing with the USA.
For a PBJ it’s almost impossible to get rid of an SB2C that is interested in getting it, as the PBJ starts at a much lower altitude, isn’t agile at all and is also slow. So the best course of action is to turn around at the start of the game if you even see one heading for you. In that case you can stay alive, but you don’t really get to do much. In one such game, an attack by an SB2C forced me to head back to the airfield for repair and by the time I got back the game was through.
The SB2C is also a huge problem for any bombers near it’s BR, because it is usually being used as an interceptor. Yesterday I was playing with the Pe-2 at 3.3 and the SB2Cs were still a huge pain. The Pe-2 is faster and can outrun a Helldiver, but that forces you to turn back and get chased by an SB2C for a few minutes instead of bombing things. That means that you might get 1 bombing run if lucky. Or the Helldiver can just set up camp above the bases and wait for you. It’s really frustrating.
I am glad that I am not the only one who sees an issue with this absurd situation even though most other replies are the typical “skill issue” and “git gud”. I like playing the Helldiver, but hate facing it as it is even more. It’s a huge pain for most bombers and attackers.
Setting the SB2C’s spawn to 1000m as other assault aircraft(which it is) should balance it, since it doesn’t climb very well. That way it isn’t going to bother high flying bombers anymore and it wont get the advantage to dive on top of everyone else. In other words it is going to take a bit more skill and planning to use the thing for once.
Imho it doesn’t matter if you get killed by a Firefly, Bf 110 or SB2C - if you fly a PBJ in Air RB you have to accept that any low skill player will attack you as a low and (relatively seen) very slow aircraft.
Your current experiences / your perception is based on the fact that the Thai/JP Helldivers are spammed like there is no tomorrow - and that they run out of energy very quick; that means that any longer interactions at higher alt brings them low and you appear on the menu.
As written earlier - the SB2Cs are a problem if their designated targets are unable to adapt their play style / attack profiles to the current threat level. Even admitting that certain medium bombers are only playable with high speed attack runs, your own example with a Pe-2 proves that you can outclimb and outrun them rather easy, all u need is a little experience.
If you remember previous grinding events - facing up to 10 Wyverns which have zero problems to get at least to co-alt with most bombers is imho a much greater pain to witness.
I am actually quite happy about the Thai / JP SB2C spam - as it significantly increases your chances to win with US/UK teams vs JP on the omnipresent Pacific maps. In these small 6 vs 6 - 8 vs 8 matches on rather large maps the downsides of them (slow, bad climb) can be exploited - all you have to do is to kill the few real threats like Ki-100s or Ki-44 IIs - you can outrun everything else.
I can’t remember them being as much of a bother before, so you might be right about the event. This still highlights a balancing issue with the SB2C. If you search around you can find recordings of people having 10 kills or more with it, which you wouldn’t expect out of a dive bomber. I can usually always score a few kills with it myself per game. It’s a lot of fun to fly, but that fun comes at the expense of other players’ frustration.
With a lower spawn, the Helldiver would still be a good plane. It will just require more consideration to use well. Since other attackers at the BR are usually able to bomb an enemy base, I expect the same from the SB2C. The players would just have to plan their route more carefully.
I agree. That BR is a bit of a burning trash fire that you kind of just have to grind your way through.
I think the rest of your post is also very fair and it’s a perspective that I haven’t really seen discussed before in this game.
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The SB2C kinda just sucks though
Its slow as balls, its climb rate is awful even if you dont take any bomb load, it turns well yes but it dumps ALL its energy in one turn and then its a sitting duck, because you cant get that energy back other than to slowly fly away and side climb.
Its only got that one turn and its two cannons going for it.
The B7A2 is significantly faster, retains its energy and can gain it back far easier, also has two cannons with frankly equal performance, turns just as well without dumping nearly as much energy, and is just honestly better in every way aside from roll rate.
Im saying this after just finishing playing the new battle pass one to do the 20k mission. There is practically no scenario Id rather be in that thai SB2C over the battle pass B7A2 considering they are both prems in the same BR in the same tech tree. Even the tech tree B7A2 is better.
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It should be the low bomber spawn if it isn’t already
This plane is far too good at just becoming a fighter that spawns at 4km. The same goes for the B7A2s for Japan and a few other examples in other nations.
Meanwhile, The B7A2:
Nah, its airspawn is fine as it is